Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

[xenowildfire]

I am fine with how you have them now Kyence, if I need to know what a technique's name is I will look up what you have listed or test them out to see what they do.

[FlamePurge]

I also agree to keep it how it is. I don't think anyone at all, even those who want the changes, would want any sort of delay at this point.

[Shinto-Cetra]

I also am in favor of keeping names and etc the way they are now.

[Manji]

I found most of PSO apocryphal.
Sega turned our beloved IP into a mockery (though they were mildly entertaining back in the Dreamcast days), I like what you've gone with.

[Reiska]

Hi! I decided to finally register so that I could state my appreciation for all the work you all are putting in to get PSG2 playable in English. Been lurking here for the better part of a year following the discussions and such. I felt, given that you were asking a pretty direct question about the future of the patch, that I should put in my two cents about the two issues raised.

Regarding Dark Whatever

As others have correctly pointed out in this thread, "Dark Falz" is the localization for this name which appears in the greatest quantity of official Phantasy Star localizations (PS1, PSO, PSU, and probably PS Portable 2 but I can't remember if he was actually in that game or not). However, given the inconsistency Phantasy Star localization standards have had over the years, I wouldn't particularly take this as any special sign of correctness or anything like that.

As still others have also correctly pointed out, the name is written in Japanese katakana as ダークファルス. I will state as a disclaimer that I have no real knowledge of the actual Japanese language, but we're not dealing with that here; we're dealing with a Japanese transliteration of what is ostensibly English. Strictly speaking, if I saw that katakana out of context and you asked me to parse what it says without telling me it was referring to a Phantasy Star antagonist, I would probably read it as "dark phallus". Strictly speaking those katakana do not adequately convey either "Dark Falz" (that would be ダークファルズ) or "Dark Force" (which would probably be something like ダークフォース, I think?); however, it is not uncommon for Japanese transliterators to make mistakes when writing English words in Japanese. This can happen for a variety of reasons ranging from simple typos to the person in charge of the transliteration mispronouncing the English word and coming up with a transliteration based on the incorrect pronunciation. An example from another Japanese work that comes to mind immediately is the original Mobile Suit Gundam's use of "ニューヤーク" instead of the more correct "ニューヨーク" (referring to the city of New York). In fact, you might notice, if you believe "Dark Force" to be the correctly intended rendering, that this is the exact same transliteration "error". I would, in general, caution against putting too much weight on "word of God" when it comes to terms rendered in a language that isn't the creator's native language because it is entirely possible that the creator just screwed up. Obviously it's harder to conclusively say so with Phantasy Star; since it's not grounded in any variant of reality like Gundam is, we don't have the advantage they do of looking at it and going "oh, well, they clearly are referring to the city of New York when they use "ニューヤーク" to refer to a major American population center".

It's worth noting, finally, that the game directly in question here (PSII) used Dark Force in its original localization. Obviously, that localization has problems of its own and I wouldn't treat it as gospel either.

Just for the sake of curiosity, I looked up (via google translate, grain of salt, etc.) for the sake of argument whether there is a German word "Falz" since other German stuff has come up a lot in PS. It in fact is, but I somehow doubt it relates to ダークファルス, as it roughly means "fold", "hinge" or "joint".

TLDR: I think "Dark Force" is an acceptable localization of ダークファルス even if it's, strictly speaking, an incorrect kana reading for reasons previously stated; it seems to be the most likely intended name when taken in the context of what ダークファルス actually does in the story of the Phantasy Star series. It's the one I'd pick if this were my project, but I wouldn't call it "wrong" if I saw either "Dark Falz" or "Dark Phallus" either, though - neither is an egregiously bad reading of the kana and both also have support from previous official works.

Really, though, the biggest remark I'd make here: it's your translation, your labor of love, and I fully believe you should be proud of and own whatever choice you make.

Regarding technique names

The arguments/discussion earlier in the thread were pretty conclusive that the technique names were intended to be read as German words and that all previous localizers at Sega simply failed to realize this. Translators miss references all the time, even in good translations, but now that we *know* the techniques are actual German words, IMO, they should be rendered as such. The arguments made were pretty clear and convincing that all previous official localizations of the technique names have been technically incorrect and I would personally give them zero weight.

[Tryphon]

Thanks for this comment Really

[xrick]

As I stated before, I'm simply pointing things out, not exactly requesting for changes to be made.
Kyence, don't worry about my bickering and keep things the way you deem fit better in this case.

[Kyence]

Thank you for your input, everyone. I'll keep the technique names as they are currently translated in the beta. I will have documentation with the patch that explains the naming anyway. I made the change to "Dark Falz" and will keep it as such. I corrected most of the errors Blaw found during his playthrough. Tryphon is fixing something I can't, so the patch is coming very soon

[xrick]

I'm sorry if I've given you a hard time after all the hard work and time you spent on this.
I remember us talking about many stuff of PSG1 by the time it got finished translating.

[PrinceMoonrise]

Also want to express many thanks and continued appreciation for the effort! Dark F___, however its going to be spelled, actually makes me quite happy to see so many people involved in the discussion. It speaks to how much people still care about this beloved franchise, and how excited we are to be able to play this game!

Wow... You already met Yuji Naka in the flesh?
Too bad the guy is no longer in Sonic Team, Sonic IP needs to be revived from Iizuka's evil paws...

Yeah, actually... even appeared on TV with him. I have an interesting history with Sega to say the least... (long story, haha). Its too bad about Sonic, seems like its too late to save that franchise. But I think Yuji Naka's latest game should be out soon, Rodea the Sky Soldier for Wii U - so at least his work is still relevant!

[xrick]

Can you share that history with SEGA with us?
It could an interesting read, to say the least...

[PrinceMoonrise]

Regarding Dark Whatever

OMG
If there was a poll for naming that boss, my vote would SO go to "DARK WHATEVER"!!
XD

Can you share that history with SEGA with us?
It could an interesting read, to say the least...

As I said, its a bit of a long story... a short summary version is that I am the Sega World Champion, for the biggest tournament they ever held at the height of their popularity in 1994, when they were promoting Sonic and Knuckles (I was a pretty successful competitive gamer in the 90's). I got to meet Yuji Naka due to that event - though I had also run into him and others at trade shows, game dev conferences, etc. over the years.

(thats Yuji Naka in the green suit, and Sega of America President/CEO Tom Kalinske handing me the check)
I was amazed that 2 decades later a couple of the former Sega presidents still remembered me on sight. I have a pile of stuff signed by Yu Suzuki from various run-ins. I did some ghostwriting for various game magazines at the time, so I met a lot of Sega PR and marketing people, often seeing them at CES/E3 as they floated to different companies. I worked as a game designer on many games from that era and beyond; at Atari: Gauntlet IV and Rampart on the Genesis, Primal Rage for the arcade... at Capcom, pretty much everything in the Saturn to Dreamcast era, including Street Fighter Alpha 3, Marvel vs. Capcom 1, and the Street Fighter III series.

Currently, I am working on an indie game project as Senior Designer with other longtime industry veterans... which is inspired by and meant to be a definitive spiritual successor to the best that "Sega" sci-fi games had to offer in the 80's and 90's. Lurking here, you can probably guess what that might mean!

In any case, I don't want to derail too much from this conversation about Phantasy Star Generation 2's translation... I absolutely love seeing people excited for this as its been SO LONG since we've seen any kind of activity from the Phantasy Star franchise to care about. Sometimes when something needs to be done, you've just got to do it, and that has been very inspiring to me and what I do. Much love to all the people here!!

[xrick]

It's always nice to have someone kind of "inside" the world each net community is inserted.
It's saddening to see the Sonic IP almost without salvation at the present time, it's a tremendous loss...

So... A spiritual successor to the PS series, I guess? The Classics, I suppose? Good luck with that

Hey... You guys aren't capable of seeing if SEGA couldn't port the AGES lineup to iOS, Android & Steam?
They may be wasting a lot of potential that way... Specially when it comes to these 2 games...
And how I hope someday PS4 gets remade like the other 2 and the Trilogy gets finally completed...

[PrinceMoonrise]

It's always nice to have someone kind of "inside" the world each net community is inserted.
It's saddening to see the Sonic IP almost without salvation at the present time, it's a tremendous loss...

So... A spiritual successor to the PS series, I guess? The Classics, I suppose? Good luck with that

Hey... You guys aren't capable of seeing if SEGA couldn't port the AGES lineup to iOS, Android & Steam?
They may be wasting a lot of potential that way... Specially when it comes to these 2 games...
And how I hope someday PS4 gets remade like the other 2 and the Trilogy gets finally completed...

While 'anything is possible', whether or not it makes business sense for Sega to do so, someone has to be at the company with the knowledge and motivation and connections to make such a thing happen. Unfortunately with things as they are, I'd say the chances are slim to none. Porting to mobile/PC would require resources. The best chance might be a PS2 Classics Release on a Sony platform (even Gradius V managed to eek out a north american PSstore release recently despite Konami being engulfed in their own flames as of late). With Sony's new program that puts demanded games into consideration (which is why we're getting Yakuza 5) there might be a chance... but it would take a LOT of demand, and I don't see that happening for Phantasy Star Generations in its current state, though PSO2 is one of the most heavily demanded "western-release please" games of all time. But hey, with the effort here nearly complete, as a fan of the series this translation is already a victory. I'm not holding my breath for a PS4 remake, I think that ship sank ages ago. :/

[Novyal]

I agree with the reasoning behind the translated names.
There's always a certain ammount of editing in all translations.

Dark Force made sense and Dark Falz also makes sense, they both have their own justification, I will play the translation regardless and am grateful to even be able to play it in a language I can understand!

Once again, I'd like to thank everyone involved in this translation: Kyence, Blaw, Tryphon and everyone else! To translate a full game for free, on their free time for the fans is

As I said, its a bit of a long story...

That story is great!