Endu..? (May include spoilers)

[Forge]

After recently watching the cutscene at Ravum Aedes Sacra with Endu, Rio, Relmitos/Nef and Orland, I was confused about something.<p>Does anyone know the answer to this, I've yet to work it out...<p>Is Endu actually Heathcliff Flowen? Or Flowen's father?<p>The strangest thing is that he acually has the Dark Flow...<p>And whilst I overlooked it at the start, he uses Flowen's Sword in the battles.<p>Help me!

[Del_Ian]

Ahh, Endu. He's a cool guy, but the final explanation of what he is is the number one reason I consider Ep3's storyline to be largely revisionist bullcrap that reads like a really, really bad fanfic.<p>Seriously. What's said about Ep1&2 in that explanation is ludicrous and contradicts some of it. And what Endu is, and where he came from... No. Just... No.<p>He's not Flowen, though. But going further than that... Heh. Spoiler city.

[Benoit]

Watch his ending.

[Lord Khyron]

Actually, Endu's ending doesn't contradict a damn thing in Episode 1/2.<p>And the dialogue in episode 3 backs up what his ending says.<p>Relmitos also backs it up.<p>Blue Star Memories also confirms alot of it. And BSM is a online quest.<p>If you take it all into account, when Flowen said "IT" he didn't mean Dark Falz. <p>P.S. Endu is a entity, much like some other Episode 1/2 people. Doesn't make a damn but of difference. <br><p>[size=small][Edit by Lord Khyron on [TIME]1115143119[/TIME]][/size]

[Del_Ian]

Because, you know, retroactively deciding that 'Oh wait, none of that was actually TRUE, no, Dark Falz didn't die and kept coming back over and over again after it was destroyed, oh, and Olga Flow too!' doesn't contradict anything at ALL. <p>Gee, funny how nobody ever mentioned anything about that at all until now... And before you say 'well how would your character know?'... Well, how WOULDN'T you know? Rumours spread like wildfire in the PSO universe, and your character is so over-involved with everything the idea of them NOT knowing about it is ludicrous. <p>That Ep3 agrees with it means nothing. Of course it agrees, ST can at least somewhat manage to get continuity to agree within an episode. It's getting it to agree BETWEEN Episodes that they fail horribly at, and Ep3 in relation to Ep1&2 is full of so much revisionist, utterly ludicrous bullcrap that I treat it as bad fanfiction. <p>I mean... Come on. It's like they made the character because it seemed like a cool idea at the time, and then tried to twist and beat the storyline to fit him. I mean, honestly, how many Ep2 quests have been released since BSM? Most of which can be presumed to occur AFTER beating Olga Flow? And yet nobody mentions ANYTHING? Nobody bothers asking you if you can please fight it again? <p>Hell, from the standpoint of the administration/lab, it would REALLY be in their best interest to keep something like that under wraps... By utilizing the same group of Hunters to fight it again. The more people that know about something, the more likely it is to leak to the general populace and be found out... So you probably keep fighting. And well... Think about it, if everything connected to Dark Falz was destroyed, it's not that much of a stretch to assume your character died - Hi, explosion! Not to mention that you're probably carrying a low-level D-factor infection yourself from being around it so much... Heh. Except wait, no, you're alive in BSM... Unless you're a clone, oooh, evil! Conspiracy theory time! And I honestly fail to see what BSM 'confirms' about the ridiculousness that is Endu's ending.<p>And what other 'it' is Flowen referring to? >_>; Olga? Seems unlikely to me, considering that Olga was implanted in him to try to CONTROL the D-factor in his body... Except well, that didn't work, because something else was controlling things. Gee, I wonder what? Rico's clearly still around... And going by the ludicrousness of Endu's ending, it can be inferred that, yes, she was still being used by Falzie.<p>Endu's a great idea, really, he is, but it's just utterly ridiculous. Kind of like if I decided to say that my HUmar was like... The 27th generation Lutz or something, and then tried to beat the hell out of PS and PSO's storylines to somehow make that work.<p>I mean, seriously, read the script for that ending again. I can barely keep from laughing doing so. It really is like a bad fanfic... <p>I can't wait for someone to transcibe the EpIV script so I can have a good long laugh at the crap they make up for that... Heh. The story information on the PSOBB US website is so ridiculous it's hilarious. Full of such wonderful tidbits as saying that Montague helped create Newmans, or the timeline contradicting the in-game text... *snrk*<p>Honestly, it's to the point where I refuse to believe anything ST says about PSO's storyline these days. It should have been left at Ep2... Where Ep3 mentions Ep1&2 events at all, it twists them. EpIV's probably yet more revisionist BS. <p>Oh, yeah, there's the other thing about Endu's ending. Can you say 'Totally unnecessary attempt to explain gameplay mechanics'? I knew you could! Hell, when do you ever fight more than one Falz or Olga in the same game? You don't. You beat something, it stays dead. -_-; Yes, wow, you can play the game more than once. But that doesn't necessitate ludicrous crap to attempt to 'explain' it. <p>Ugh. Like I said. They should have left it at Ep2. Heck, I even dread a sequel to Seat of the Heart even though I want one more than anything, because it's been two years now... How much of the original are they going to contradict and get wrong? Too many writers, none of whom read eachother's work. It's like they have a vague idea of the plot, but not the specifics, and then just make stuff up to fill in... Which usually isn't what was there before. -_-;

[Lord Khyron]

Actually, IT refers to Amplum Umbla or The Great Shadow.<p>Flowen will never revive o.o<p>Only Dark Falz will every 1000 years. Which is the same thing in every PS game. You never ***** then do you?<p>Just read the damn online quests, all of episode 3 plot and it all fits together.<p>And I removed certain responses because if this is a educated, informed opinion, they were un-needed. But if it's a "I hate Episode 3, so what it says is crap" then I'll gladly put it back in. <p>[size=small][Edit by Lord Khyron on [TIME]1115231608[/TIME]][/size]

[Benoit]

No, Khyron, "IT" refers to Dark Falz. It's so obvious.

[Lord Khyron]

No no.. I'll quote Kylria's cut-scene.. This will prove it.<p> <blockquote><br>If you're hearing this,<br>then you two must be<br>looking for me, right...<br>Unfortunately,<br>it's too late. <br>I can no longer return. <p>I was able to carry the Germ B-BACK W-WITHOUT<br>DYING only because the <p>Great Shadow kept me<br>alive and R-RETURNED <br>me to Pioneer 2.<p>It allowed this to try to <br>once again t-TO MERGE <br>WITH a NEW LIFEFORM.<p>UUuuu...<p>...A-anyway...<p>You must be C-CAREFUL of<br>the Great SHADOW...<p>Kylria: Blitz was the one<br>who first brought it back<br>to Pioneer 2.<br>At first, they just thought <br>it was some new disease.<br>But as research<br>progressed, they came<br>to realize<br>the amazing potential <br>hidden inside it.<br>But they weren't able to<br>successfully duplicate it,<br>so research was only able <br>to use the small sample <br>that was brought back.<p></blockquote> <p>As you see here, from Kylria's second cut scene on "Phantom Shop 3", The GS allowed Blitz to flee, so it could try and evolve once again. The only other time someone with D_cell wounds (GERM wounds) was Flowen.<p>According to that, Once again it tried to MERGE with a new Life-Form ala Flowen style. <p>There are 2 other cut scenes which confirm this. <p>Dark Falz was a element tied to the Great Shadow, Able to be revived regardless of defeat. The Great Shadow is the source of Dark Falz, so therefore "IT" is the cursed inheritence of Coral. <p>[size=small][Edit by Lord Khyron on [TIME]1115253649[/TIME]][/size]<br><p>[size=small][Edit by Lord Khyron on [TIME]1115253741[/TIME]][/size]

[Forge]

Another thing...<p>Are Castor and Pollux actually also infected, and are they the clone weapons Creinu speaks of?

[Lord Khyron]

They are clone weapons produced by the government who protect the location of The Great Shadow.<p>The problem is, at the end of the Arkz side, Red says "Finally my daughter will" Not daughters.<p>Here is the story of Commander Red..<p>"Red had two daughters, whom he loved very much. But somehow, they died. Because he loved his daughters so much, he wished to be with them again. When the government offered to clone them back into existance, he agreed. The government soon prepared two wonderful little clone girls of his deceased daughters. The problems arose when they went further. Without Red or his daughters' permission, they continued makeing more little girls. The government and Dol Grisen were working on a "Clone Weapon" project, which involved horribly mutating humans in order to enhance their powers. Many of the clones were not stable, and probably insane or evil. When the un-altered clones of Reds' daughters saw what they had been used to make, they held hands and killed themselves in a double suicide pact. Devastated, Red fled from P2, and became the leader of ARKZ, to oppose such great wrongs."<p>Another anecdote..<p>"Commander Red's twin daughters. They were presumably killed in some kind of horrible accident, which devastated Red. Red heard about Dol Grisens' cloning project, and decided to have his daughters copied, to bring them back to be with him. However, Dol Grisen made multiple copies of the children and kept some of the copies for himself, and twisted them into horrible weapons. When the first clones of Red's daughters saw what they were being used to create, they held hands and killed themselves to stop Dol Grisen's scientists. Their double deaths lead Red to begin his uprising against the Hunters, Grisen, and the P2 government. Red later goes to see what happened to his daughters' clones in the abandoned lab where Dol Grisen dumped all the failures. He finds a horror there."<p>Red then takes his daughters and puts them safe in Arkz base cryogenically frozen. <p>It is tragic what happened to Red's daughters. <p>Anyone who uses Card Tech becomes infected by GERM (D-cells) and will die eventually. It's a disease. <br><p>[size=small][Edit by Lord Khyron on [TIME]1115316209[/TIME]][/size]

[Benoit]

Khyron, YOU FORGOT THE SPOILERS TAG!!!<p>Thank God I didn't read all of it.<p>The situations are the same, but the entities infecting not. Dark Falz was sealed in the space ship, not the Great Shadow.<p>[size=small][Edit by Benoit on [TIME]1115316223[/TIME]][/size]

[Lord Khyron]

But Benoit, the Great Shadow is eternal. It is what makes Dark Falz.<p>Therefore, IT is The Great Shadow.<p>If you think about it, DF wanted to destroy Ragol to free it's master.<p>The way monsters appear inside the ruins dictates use of Germ in summoning. <p>Since Ragol is of the Coralian civilization, I believe that long ago they made the Leukon Knights to fight The Great Shadow and Dark Falz. But seeing they could not defeat it, they decided to trap it in a spaceship. Therebye keeping the 2 entities seperate. Without Dark Falz, the Great Shadow has no power. <p>This can also explain why there are no ancients left on Ragol, Germ infection killed them. Germ is proven to be fatal. <br> <br>I believe the Great Shadow was right inside the ship, using Dark Falz to remain hidden.<p>For the Great Shadow is the true evil, not Dark Falz. <p>But when Flowen and Rico do their thing wiping out any trace of Dark Falz, the Great Shadow has to move to hide. It's hidden location is where you find it in Episode 3. <p>Remember Endu's ending says that when Dark falz is destroyed, the Great Shadow is left behind. It must then move to hide for 1000 years till it can birth a new Dark falz.<p>The Great Shadow was in the ship the whole time!<p>This is just my conjecture.

[Forge]

Sorry about this Benoit, but I agree with Khyron.<p>It think that Amplum Umbra is the Profound Darkness, and thus the true energy of Dark Falz. I think that Pioneer 2 mistranslates its name to Great Shadow, but it is the same thing.<p>I'm not going to repeat Khyron's argument, but that is what I believe to be true.<p>---------------------<p>Oh the wonders of Phantasy Star games and their undecipherable storylines.