Motavia and Palma switched orbit?

[skymandr]

Well...I am new here, but have been playing these games since I was three. I made my preschool teacher call me Odin rather than Tony. No bullshit. So forgive me if I haven't seen these same topics on this board before - they have just been unanswered questions in my head for many years.

Don't get me wrong! I really appreciate that you do bring these things up! It's just that I felt an over-flow of nostalgia (which is also a good thing).

And of conflict was the "Noah is not Lutz" argument: in the Japanese canon, it is clear that Lutz is the same person in PS and PSII, while this is not the case in the English version.

The only difference is a name change, isn't it? How this gets understood as an entirely different person despite him sharing the same name in the originals boggles the mind.

There is also the gender-discussion, which AugmentedFourth brought up in the other thread. I don't remember how serious that was, though. Wasn't there a mistranslation, where "she" was used instead of "he" somewhere? I never understood the somewhat ... ah... desperate attempts by some to make the English versions a separate coherent canon, but I have to admire their tenacity...

[etony33]

There is also the gender-discussion, which AugmentedFourth brought up in the other thread. I don't remember how serious that was, though. Wasn't there a mistranslation, where "she" was used instead of "he" somewhere? I never understood the somewhat ... ah... desperate attempts by some to make the English versions a separate coherent canon, but I have to admire their tenacity...

I'm the Governor. I'm told that you intend to try to kill Lassic. I admire your courage. In the Maharu Cave lives an esper named Noah. I will give you a letter of introduction to present to her. I have faith that you will kill Lassic and return here eventually. You should rest here awhile after your long journey.

I think the other part of it is that Noah/Lutz isn't obviously male or female judging by his appearance, since his hood and robe take up most of his body anyway.

[BenoitRen]

Yeah, that seems very far fetched, especially since he says that the first generation Lutz and his companions fought him in the Air Castle.

The Air Castle also came back in Phantasy Star IV, though. As for companions, it could have been anyone. It may even have been Rolf and company, if you believe they survived!

[etony33]

I don't buy that for a second.

[etony33]

Let me put it like this...

If something in the English versions actually contradicts the Japanese version directly, then I'll go with the English, since it's what I know. If information is given in the Japanese version that isn't in the English version, then I see no reason not to regard it as being canonical. If something is said in the Japanese version that is left ambiguous in the English version (such as Lutz being Noah), then I see no reason not to regard it as being canonical. But things that are directly contradicted, such as the timeline for PSIII...I'll go with what it says in the version I know. But I can absolutely see why people wouldn't.

[zio_falz]

If Noah and Lutz arent the same, then in PSIV when Rune mentions the "first generation of Lutz fought a man called Lasheic," wouldnt he say "the first generation of Noah fought a man" instead?

Thats one of the reasons I am in the japanese canon camp.

[DarkMyau]

Considering Mother Brain took over the Algol System, its reasonable to assume she would have changed their orbits for optimum efficiency.

Even 1000 years after the collapse Motavia hasn't fully returned to being a desert.

[etony33]

DarkMyau lives! Actually, I should have figured that Myau has a really long lifespan.

As far as the whole Noah/Lutz thing...lol. This again. They are obviously one in the same.

The reason for the disparity between Rune's initial reaction to DF1 and his comments about Lashiec is quite simple: he was concealing the fact that he was Lutz.

[MrStarbird]

As far as the orbit goes, I don't even have a theory behind that. Interesting find, though.

As far as the whole Noah/Lutz thing, I also looked at the term "Lutz" to be a title of sorts for the person and not the name of the person itself, much like a person of influence and power could be called Bishop, Cardinal, Father, President, Prime Minister, etc. Noah to me was the 1st Generation Lutz, but was still Noah by name, just like Rune is the 5th Generation Lutz but still known as Rune by name. Washington was the 1st US President just was Clinton was the 42nd US President. Just a title.

Nobody in Phantasy Star II referred to Lutz by his birth name. I have heard many people think that Lutz from Phantasy Star II is the same as Noah as he has memories of Alis and her beauty.

"What woke me was Alis' scream. So you are the last descendant of Alis who fought to protect Algo. Beautiful Alis, the symbol of Algo, was fighting the dark force in that dream."

Nowhere in his dialog in the English version of the game does he say he fought alongside her, however. It can be theorized either way, but given what we know of the power of the Telepathy Ball (afterall, Rune says that he had seen Dark Force before even though the last time Dark Force attacked was generations before he was even born). It is safe to say that the Phantasy Star II Lutz (who I am guessing would probably be 3rd Generation, and this is just by guessing that Noah was the 1st Generation, even though there is no evidence that he is that either, which could be theorized that Noah himself could be at the least 2nd Generation Lutz and that Tajima could have possibly been 1st Generation, but again, no evidence) used the Telepathy Ball to inherit the will and memories of Noah in the same way that Rune did.

[etony33]

"The first generation Lutz hid the Aeroprism at the Soldier's Temple"

The last time we saw the Aeroprism, Rolf had it. Also, the Soldier's Temple did not exist anywhere on Motavia in PS2. Therefore, it had to be the First Generation Lutz in PS2

[BenoitRen]

The Soldier's Temple not existing in PSII doesn't matter, though. After all, other locations, like Termi in PSI, didn't exist either.

The rest of your post is on point, though.

[etony33]

I suppose it's possible that the oceans were higher during PS2, leaving the Soldier's Temple underwater.

[zio_falz]

Yes, switched. It is referred to as "The Conjunction" in japanese materials.