WHY is Sean's generation so popular?

[Black Sword]

I'm going to go ahead an object on Crys' behalf for calling him barbaric! A social taboo against violence just ends up creating a society of emasculated, entitled cowards. A thousand years ago, people were polite because they didn't know whether the other guy would split their head open for rudeness. Nowadays, if you have a busted arm in NYC, expect to be jostled, shoved, and otherwise manhandled as people try to take advantage of that injury rather than show some minimal courtesy. Of course, they received what they had coming...

As for the future King Crys.... well, honestly, the kind of woman he needs would have to be like his Grandmother Lena, only with his mother's strong will, so Crys wouldn't ride roughshod over her.

[Tanith]

Oh, I wasn't calling Crys barbaric, I was saying if there was peace after the defeat of DF (like I assume would happen) and Crys had to take out his bloodlust on his own people, that would be a problem. Personally I see him as more the type to go on to be a militaristic ruler, but a fair one. I think what you brought up earlier, about going after DF being his Christmas, would also mean he'd wear that conquest with pride as a ruler, letting it drive him, being the "decorated" hero (though not overly egotistical about it). He'd enjoy watching his troops march in front of him, and if he's charismatic (which I think he is, but that's just me), he'd inspire patriotism in his people.

In case you couldn't tell, I like Crys. ;)

[augmentedfourth]

When you get right down to it, most of the heroes of PSIII are essentially blank slates.

This probably accounts for a lot of the lengthy posts in this thread. Oh, PSIII, you're pretty fun to play, but your character development is pretty sucky...

I do think that Ayn's quest is much more fleshed-out than Nial's, and, in turn, Sean's is more detailed than Crys. For a game that gives us so little to go on, I can see how that can appeal to a lot of players (though if they're playing through unspoiled, I guess they wouldn't know the details of the different generations until they got there). I will admit to not playing Crys' quest in AGES, but I really don't remember getting the "violent warrior" vibe that's being discussed from him. I guess the game does sort of suggest that he takes after his mother (lack of useful techniques, hair color, etc.), but I would think that having Ayn as a father would soften him up a little bit.

I think that out of the four 3rd generation princes, Aron is the least developed. I think part of it may be due to all the possible marriages in the game - Rhys has valid reasons for marrying either Maia or Lena, and same with Ayn and Thea/Sari, but I can't imagine Nial (assuming he exists) marrying Alair over Laya. Sure, you rescue her, but you spend all of ten seconds with her before being offered her hand in marriage. (And on a shallow note, Laya totally wins out in the looks department ). If I'm remembering correctly, there isn't even that much fanfic written about Aron, perhaps suggesting that most people find him as boring/improbably as I do.

[BenoitRen]

The only thing that Aron has going for him is the infamous time warp ending. As if the game was saying: "You married Alair?! That doesn't make any sense! Off to the black hole with you!".

[Black Sword]

You know, it wouldn't surprise me if Benoit was right....

[Tanith]

As a character Aron fascinates me, probably because of his parents' union. Nial and Alair would need a pretty interesting back story in order to justify their union on a romantic level. Not that romance is needed, Nial and Alair being a royal and a... noble? sister of a war hero? and all. I enjoy Toyo Ozaki's characterization of him, as well as the idea that he's questing with Laya, his father's other possible romantic interest. If the group weren't waist-deep in "our ship is under siege by the forces of evil" calamity, I'd think that their adventuring together would be a tad awkward.

I don't like the time warp ending, however. For the most part I loathe time warps in sci-fi. Aron seems like a fun hero, though. He's endearingly nerdy and more sci-fi in design than his counterparts.

[Sange Mahlay]

I actually think, if anything, Aron's ending is a reward for players who were pissed about the lack of continuity.Aron's ending is the most intriguing. That ending implies that the crew of the Alisa III is partially responsible for the events of PSII.

While the other endings are nice, this is the one that seems to resonate with the theme of PSIII; namely that our actions often have unintended and unforeseen consequences on the future. Or the past, as the case may be. It's a little dark and there's a sense of foreboding. The whole cycle of violence gets to start all over again. Dark Force is pretty much right when he says they'll get to do it all over again in a 1,000 years. The other endings are happier, but this isn't a happy game. It's downright grim.

It also ties the game right back into the series far more organically than anything else that was put in the game (cough cough New Mota cough cough). For these reasons, I enjoy this one the most. Adan's, however similar it may be to this one, is just not as good.

[Black Sword]

I didn't like Aron much, though I suppose it's not his fault his ending is the one I dislike the most. To quote an infamous web comic: "I hate time travel."

To be more eloquent, I can only think of Aron's ending as a punishment or a taunt. Let's allow for the fact that we're not completely sure if the laws of physics allow backwards time travel and presume it's plausible, even though it's strongly scientifically supported that the singularity of a black hole should crush anything that falls into it into infinitely tiny pieces until there is nothing left to crush.

What happens? The predestination paradox. Our actions create a time loop, in which event A in the future helps cause event B in the past via time travel, and the event B in turn is one of the causes of A. That negates the relevance of chance, free will, and pretty much all the other things the Phantasy Star series is about. All of our heroes had a choice when it came to their actions, and their choice was the hardest, yet at the same time would accomplish the best. Alis chose to rebel against Lassic and free Algo. Rolf chose to defy Mother Brain and protect Algo. Chaz chose to fight the Profound Darkness and save our spacetime. At anytime they could have refused. Hell, they came close a number of times, and even Chaz had to be convinced.

So that means Aron...did not chose to fight Dark Force. He was predestined to do so, he would fail to save the Alisa III, and all the pain and suffering goes back into a loop. No one had a choice to do anything. Everything was predestined by the Great Light. But if it was, why even bother with Ryrkos?

If anything, Aron's ending is the one most out of line with PSIII and PS as a whole, and organic tie-in or not, it's the one that least belongs.

[Sange Mahlay]

Fair point, but I think your conflating Predestination with destiny. I rather think the Great Light had very little to do with the goings on of the Alisa III. To me, the events of PSIII are the results of Dark Force's machinations and his alone. So, whether Aron was "chosen" or made a choice is functionally irrelevant. Aron(and his counterparts) lost before they were even born. The people of Lashute pretty much say that outright. Dark Force won. Granted, it was sort of how Garland "won" in Final Fantasy but he won all the same.

... unless we entertain the possibility that the Great Light might actually want to bring an errant Dark Force back to Algo.But I think that's giving it too much credit, considering GL is either an absent parent or dead, depending on your canon.

For the record, Time Travel really is a hoary old chestnut. But, as I said, the reason I like this ending is because it does have some resonance. The other ones either revolved around time travel again, or the Neo-Palm showing up. Which are fine, but it's a nice little twist that I hadn't really expected when I first played it.

[Black Sword]

Not at all. Destiny is almost certain, but there is room for change. When I say "It is my destiny to rule the world," the question can be asked: will you? That remains to be see. Whereas predestination negates any notion of change. When you say "Aron's Alisa III will fall into the black hole, thrown back into the past, where Terrans will meet them, setting off the events that will destroy Palm, the evacuation fleet, and result in Aron's birth and failure," you speak a truth that nothing can change.

Continuing from there, Dark Force is powerful, but if he had the power of predestination, then the entire series should have ended with our failure, because fate was decided before we even picked up the controller. Not even the Profound Darkness had that kind of power, so we must presuppose that the Great Light lacks it as well, as the two were equals in power.

Yes, it's positively ancient, literally. I think there's a recorded instance of it in Hindu myth, so heaven help us all. None of the other PS3 ends had anything to do with time travel, so that last statement puzzles me.

[Sange Mahlay]

I was referring to Adan's ending. They don't actually go through the black hole, do they? My bad. Still, the scene does seem to imply that they go to Earth. Interesting that.

Anyway, I'm not saying that Dark Force has control of the entire fate of the Alisa III. But he does have agency in the worldship through Rulakir and the People of Lashute. Manipulation of events is not predestination. But there were events that the heroes did not, for one reason or another, have the ability to change. Like the ship drifting towards the black hole.

Now, it is true that this is not immutable. Sean's doesn't even mention the hole at all and Adan was successful in evading it. But Aron didn't, and he couldn't, because certain resources that were available to the others (like Gwen's visions for Adan) were not available to him. He would inevitably fall into the same sequence of events that befell him before. Of course, that's if you think his ending is the correct one.

[Black Sword]

They don't go through the black hole, but they do end up in a star system which may or may not be Earth. It's third from the sun and in the "livable" region of a star system by our current scientific standards.

By definition, predestination requires something in control of fate. An "agency" in the form of Lashute cannot accomplish predestination because it simply does not have that kind of power, otherwise, they wouldn't have ended up fried, Megid-style. An agency has to have that power to force/create that predestination paradox, and neither of the godlike beings in the PS universe has that power, which creates the question of "what is that agency?"

Assuming you think Aron's ending is the correct one.

(Sange deserves cookies. I haven't argued metaphysics in so long that doing it now is like giving a recovering alcoholic a 20 year old bottle of scotch)

[Sange Mahlay]

Cookies sound excellent, but I'd rather crack open that 20 year old bottle scotch.

But is there a fate other than what we make? I feel like this is getting into a larger debate on whether predestination (Time-based or otherwise) is even really possible. So, working within the "12 Monkeys" time travel framework, I would say that decisions would continue to be made in the same manner, so long as one follows that Aron's ending is correct. The timing of events for Aron just wouldn't allow for him to make any other decisions and thus change the course of the Alisa III. No other force needs to act upon it.
It's a little like the scenario everyone asks at boring get-togethers. "If you went back in time, would you stop the [insert tragic event here]?" People assume et ceteris paribus and get right to what effects would occur. We skip over whether we even would have the resources to do so. Or worse, we don't factor in the possibility that our efforts allow the tragedy to come to pass in some manner. There is no fate. Only circumstances and our ability to control them.

Of course, this is all moot. Since it still comes down to which scenario you like and which one you don't.

[Black Sword]

If I knew how, I'd age a scotch for the next 25 years, just to have it ready for my 50th. Hmm....

"Fate" is decided by an agency with the power to define it, making it inescapable. "Destiny" is a future that is almost certain, but that still has some small possibility of change. The problem with the predestination paradox is that it exists as fate: everything is already known, including the outcome of the decisions taken, decided by an agency. This would mean Aron was predestined/fated to fail to save his world, starting the loop with us Terrans, and so on. Predestination thereby means our circumstances and control are an illusion, since everything will turn out the same since our decisions were already made for us, despite the illusion we hold that we made the decision.

Just because it's moot doesn't mean the metaphysics and scotch aren't fun.

[Doctor Hooves]

Crys is my favourite Generation 3 hero.