Talking about my Generation!

[HTD]

Hi,

I was thinking the other day while I should have probably been doing something constructive.

I really like Phantasy Star 3's Generation Mechanic but, is it just me or does it seem really rushed and not worth a cent.
For example the Generation 1 character all seem very strong in design.
They had nice varied colors and plenty of appeal, although I do feel Lyle is like a cheap man's Rune.

Then we get to Generation 2 and 3, now some of the characters were cool in personality and perhaps battle skills, some felt really tacked on and quite bland visually.
The heroes don't really seem any different than our first and it didn't have the buzz I felt the Mechanic should have given us.

Here is my question to you all:

"What Characters from PS 3 are worth keeping and why, how would you change them or replace them?"

and further more

"Which Generation needs the most redesign, what would you do?"

I am real curious what you all will say.

[Edge]

"What Characters from PS 3 are worth keeping and why, how would you change them or replace them?"

Every character is worth keeping... Because they're the original cast, and core of Phantasy Star III rather they sucked or not...

Changing? Heeeere we go...

Rhys: He needs personality... We know nothing of him except he is aggressive and ready to start a war at the drop of a hat. I would make Rhys a cocky/arrogant fighter who fears nothing. That's how he struck me by his instant attempt to start a war with Maia's kid-napping.

Mieu: She should have more lines and a huge knowledge of Orakian history... Also her creator should be mentioned as well as her purpose... The Japanese version said she was only 560 years old, leaving her origin a complete mystery.

Wren: He should be more like Wren from PSIV... He should also have knowledge of EVERYTHING in Alisa III, why he didn't is beyond me... And why you had to learn of his transformations from townsfolk and not Wren himself is beyond me as well.

Lyle: Lyle was cool! I'd keep him much the same, but maybe have him explain more behind his motives... He should also be able to transform into a dragon, seeing as... You know, he can transform into a dragon!

Lena: Lena and Rhys should have a history together, and she should be of a noble Landen decent. Perhaps the castle that later becomes ruins next to Landen.

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Ayn: Ayn should be a famous man... He is the first Orakian/Layan fusion, and he should have close relations to both Landen and Aquatica. He should be a gentleman. A real prince.

Thea: Thea should be more of a wizard-type mage using Slashers... She is pure Layan and daughter of Lyle afterall... Thea should also have a weaker dragon transformation ability.

Sari: Sari is the heir to the Landen thrown, she should be made a pure warrior, and she looks like an Amazon... Maybe make her like Xena warrior princess! Dunno...

Nial: Nial is pure Orakian, he should be much like Rhys, or maybe even much like Sari but a male... I always found the two of them very similar... Maybe cause Lena is the mother?

Ryan: Ryan should be one of those "I'm glad he's on my side!" kind of people... He's a rebel, so keep that in mind when making his character.

---------------------------

Adan & Gwen: They should be shocked by the worlds... They grew up on a colorless moon, they should be kind of like Rika. They should also be very educated! They should also have some extreme telepathic connection with Laya being their mother, and them being twins.

Aron & Princess Kara: Similar to Adan and Gwen, they should be raised borderline war monger like warriors. Just figure, Nial is the dad, Alair is the mom, and Lune is there as well. These people would be super warrior mentality.

Sean: He should be gloomy and hateful for obvious reasons.

Crys: He should be the ultimate warrior type, growing up in his era in Landen would form a true warrior. He should be kind of a prick with a smart mouth as well.

Warrior Kara: She should show loyalty to Laya, and be much like Lune. She is a warrior Kara after all.

Laya: The result of a magician who spent her life in a endless and hopeless war where the end result was her sister and worst enemy gave their lives to save their ship.

Which Generation needs the most redesign, what would you do?

All 4 third generations need heavily changed, and the 2nd half of Nials should be changed as well. Those parts are ALL the same thing.

[Tanith]

@Edge- Lena is the princess of Satera, which is that neighboring kingdom of Landen. It kind of sounded like you thought she wasn't royalty? Please correct me if I'm wrong. And Adan and Gwyn grew up in Landen, not one of the satellites.

The third generation needs the most development, followed by Nial's path, so I agree with Edge.

The ones I'd change the most drastically:

Gwyn- As mentioned in the thread about 3rd generation heroes, I really think she needs a redo. I would not make Adan and Gwyn twins, I'd make Gwyn older and the HERO of that path, and yes, that means wielding the sword. She would get a makeover so that her sprites are different from her mother's. She'd still resemble her mother, but her outfit would be different. Adan can carry the bow. :P From a technical angle, I'd fix her buggy stat gains. I'd also spell her name Gwen, which is etymologically more correct.

Warrior Kara- Same as Gwyn, I'd fix her stat gains. Princess Kara shouldn't surpass Warrior Kara with HP and AP; that's ridiculous.

Laya- If Nial does not choose to marry her, she doesn't go back to cryostasis. She either joins Aron as an older, wiser Laya, or her offspring joins Aron's party.

Ryan- Well, he needs something. Work up an interesting story about being a rebel and his history with Lune.

[Edge]

@Edge- Lena is the princess of Satera, which is that neighboring kingdom of Landen. It kind of sounded like you thought she wasn't royalty? Please correct me if I'm wrong. And Adan and Gwyn grew up in Landen, not one of the satellites.

I actually didn't know that... That will be most helpful in the editing of my remade script... Thank you very much for this information.

[Black Sword]

@Edge- Lena is the princess of Satera, which is that neighboring kingdom of Landen. It kind of sounded like you thought she wasn't royalty? Please correct me if I'm wrong. And Adan and Gwyn grew up in Landen, not one of the satellites.

The third generation needs the most development, followed by Nial's path, so I agree with Edge.

The ones I'd change the most drastically:

Gwyn- As mentioned in the thread about 3rd generation heroes, I really think she needs a redo. I would not make Adan and Gwyn twins, I'd make Gwyn older and the HERO of that path, and yes, that means wielding the sword. She would get a makeover so that her sprites are different from her mother's. She'd still resemble her mother, but her outfit would be different. Adan can carry the bow. From a technical angle, I'd fix her buggy stat gains. I'd also spell her name Gwen, which is etymologically more correct.

Warrior Kara- Same as Gwyn, I'd fix her stat gains. Princess Kara shouldn't surpass Warrior Kara with HP and AP; that's ridiculous.

Laya- If Nial does not choose to marry her, she doesn't go back to cryostasis. She either joins Aron as an older, wiser Laya, or her offspring joins Aron's party.

Ryan- Well, he needs something. Work up an interesting story about being a rebel and his history with Lune.

I've a hunch that Tanith will strive to murder me before year's end over PSIII. Here goes...

Adan and Gwyn are both of Landen. I suspect that Gwyn was meant to be a yamato nadeshiko, a Japanese ideal of woman who is loyal, wise, mature... and just as able to kick arse as the samurai/knight counterpart. It's unfortunate, but a lot of Westerners disdain the archetype. Who knows, maybe being a lady is passe these days?

Anyway, I'd keep them as twins, maintain their roles, and make clear the mystic female inheritance present in the JP version, where Laia and the bow were title, inheritance, and I suppose demigodhood. No need to change the name, though.

Stats fix, amen.

I like the older Laya idea, it's pretty interesting. And I think Ryan needs more love too! I subscribe to the Thea theories on that score, though...

[Wing-0]

@Edge- Lena is the princess of Satera, which is that neighboring kingdom of Landen. It kind of sounded like you thought she wasn't royalty? Please correct me if I'm wrong. And Adan and Gwyn grew up in Landen, not one of the satellites.

The third generation needs the most development, followed by Nial's path, so I agree with Edge.

Actually, in the Phantasy Star 3 Unofficial Book by Toyo Ozaki and Masaki Segawa, who designed the characters for PS3 (the facial portraits in PS3 are in Segawa's style), the descriptions of the characters are more or less as Edge's perceptions, except for some points.

The ones I'd change the most drastically:

Gwyn- As mentioned in the thread about 3rd generation heroes, I really think she needs a redo. I would not make Adan and Gwyn twins, I'd make Gwyn older and the HERO of that path, and yes, that means wielding the sword. She would get a makeover so that her sprites are different from her mother's. She'd still resemble her mother, but her outfit would be different. Adan can carry the bow. From a technical angle, I'd fix her buggy stat gains. I'd also spell her name Gwen, which is etymologically more correct.

Gwyn (or Laya in Japan), is comedically represented as having a bit of a complex regarding her brother. She's short, a bit chubby and has a hard time keeping up with her brother when walking around.

I dunno, I'd keep Gwyn the same, while showing her as an insecure girl in light of his cool brother that is basically good at everything, but balance things a bit by having Adan depend on her visions and insight on many things as well as having a deep respect for her since she has abilities he sorely lacks.

Warrior Kara- Same as Gwyn, I'd fix her stat gains. Princess Kara shouldn't surpass Warrior Kara with HP and AP; that's ridiculous.

There, I agree. Warrior Kara should be a complete badass with icy eyes.

Laya- If Nial does not choose to marry her, she doesn't go back to cryostasis. She either joins Aron as an older, wiser Laya, or her offspring joins Aron's party.

I'd like that, but I kinda like having Laya back. There's a joke in which Aron and Princess Kara go to wake her up from stasis. In Ozaki's gag manga, Aron is portrayed as a very knowledgable young man with a penchant for reading and culturing himself. As a result, he sees things as described in books. When he meets Laya, he says that it's so cool to meet an ancient fossil, much to Laya's answer and Kara's dismay at having such a weirdo for a cousin.

Ryan- Well, he needs something. Work up an interesting story about being a rebel and his history with Lune.

No disagreement there. He DOES have the badass mug after all.

Mieu was portrayed as a very motherly type android which was tasked with being everyone's nanny. Wren was portrayed as a completely emotionless killing machine, which was basically what he was. Still, a bit of comedy was at hand precisely because of his demeanor.

[Tanith]

@Black Sword- You're right about Gwyn possibly fitting an idealistic representation of being soft-n-purdy, cute, demure, etc. Before we get lost in a debate about how Western feminism has killed the era of the true lady, that's not what I have a problem with. I don't mind the women of PS wearing dresses and having long hair and being better at healing than fighting. As Wing-0 pointed out, Toyo Ozaki portrays many of the characters in very severely-defined, overly idealistic ways, and it's certainly not uncommon in many JP series to do this. I guess what bothers me the most is that at no point in PSIII does a woman get to be the "smart" one. Mystical powers don't count here.

Am I really the only one who can appreciate how unfair it is that there are no female leads in this game? There were seven separate paths in the game.

In Toyo's comics the females bicker, talk about their boobs, weight problems and hair. It's that irritating Usagi Tsukino complex. To be fair, the men have annoying stereotypes as well, but are generally more balanced than the females.

[HTD]

A Female lead would be cool I think.
It is quite a departure in design PS3 female character to PS1 Alisa.

[Black Sword]

@Tanith I didn't say that. The yamato nadeshiko archetype is more than just "soft-n-purdy, cute, demure;" it involves being both lady and warrioress, elegant and deadly, since she would be expected to rule the household and fend off enemies who attacked the castle with a naginata. Not your typical damsel in distress!

I think you are overly concerned a bit. Each generation had a female lead of some kind. They may not have been the coveted protagonist, but that's not exactly sexist. It's a game with a feudal society that has collapsed into barbarism at least once in the past. There are standard male and female roles that raise their heads during such times, so it makes cultural sense that gals like Sari, Laya, and Gwyn be exceptional, rather than standard.

[Edge]

Is their a site with these spin off stories by any chance?

[Tanith]

There are standard male and female roles that raise their heads during such times, so it makes cultural sense that gals like Sari, Laya, and Gwyn be exceptional, rather than standard.

Mneh. The Layans were led by a female during the Devastation War, and I could be wrong, but based on the opening artwork it appears the Alisa III was already in a medieval state, with primitive weapons and clothing during that war.

Furthermore, it just makes sense to have a female lead from a marketing standpoint. It doesn't really matter what's most accurate in collapsed society; I honestly didn't care about that when the game was released in 1991. It's all fantasy, anyway. I just wanted something different for a generation, rather than the sea of sameness I was constantly swimming in: male lead with his choice of wives. It didn't connect with me, and female gamers tended to play more RPGs than other games back in the day, so I couldn't have been the only one wondering why there couldn't have been at least one female lead protagonist.

Oh, and none of this is an actual big deal to me. It's an old game that was poorly made in just about every way possible but had great potential. So many of us have vastly different ideas about what made it interesting and what needed improving, which also suggests that the story was deep and compelling.

[Edge]

http://www.pscave.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=45159#45159 Came across this earlier while looking for my timeline which seems to have VANISHED SOME HOW >_<

Anyhow, this information should be implemented into the game.

[Black Sword]

@Tanith Following US canon, it seems that the Devastation War happened right after the escape from Palma, which is one way to interpret the more modern stance Laya and Lune seemed to have towards their female offspring.

[Edge]

Why follow US? The Japanese version tells the entire story accurately. Don't negate the golden information given to you from the Japanese script... That would be... Ignorant.

[HTD]

The problem is having two different time lines for both series.
Most problems occur by mistranslation of games within a series but PS actually has a different time line if you recall.

I we all need to meet up on msn messenger.
[email protected] add me, guys I live in the UK, so GMT is key to talk to me.
There is going to be a lot about ps3 that I will need to be filled in on, corrected on and asked about.

Just add me and state your name from the forum.