PSP on PSP

[Abominae]

I'd get it. I think the biggest problem people have is that they can't seem to accept that the PS series they grew up with came to a conclusion. Maybe that is the allure of the Final Fantasy Series. Instead of creating a world that keeps going and going and going like it has a energizer battery stuck up it's ass, each world comes to and end on the same game it started on. This gave it the opportunity to explore several different aspects of what a game could do based in a fantasy world.

Phantasy Star: End of a Millenium is the greatest game the Phantasy Star series has to offer because of the in-depth characters and story involved. It touched on every PS game that came before it (except perhaps, the GameGear titles) and introduced some of the most beloved Characters in the series: Wren (a.k.a. Forren), Rika, and Raja (you know you love him!). The lack of flaws plaguing the previous 3 PS games, don't ask me to name them... you know what they are, are refreshingly absent and it's easy for one to take great joy getting a feel for this game. Sure, Phantasy Star 2 is definently the most famous PS title of them all... but how many of you can honestly recommend any other PS game to a friend who isn't a particular Console-style RPG fan?

Take a step back, remember that the Algo star system has had it's conflicts resolved, THEN decide whether or not this game is for you. I think people miss out because of their predisposed expectations for anything with the name Phantasy Star in it. PSO would have been much more successful had it carried another name. Until Sega decides to return to Algo (assuming they ever do) I believe anything that carries the name Phantasy Star will suffer from not being part of that first storyline...

[Edless]

it's a shame because it would be so simple to connect the titles to the original games.

As a matter of fact, in PSO, if they had showed us a link with the first serie I would have accepted it as a real PS game (the same would apply for PSU).

For instance saying the scientists from Algo decided to conquer space. Just saying with a couple of images that they did send palmians with wren types and other casts plus they made the newmans because they are more fit for adaptation (showing there a newman genetic lab with clones and embryos in capsules) and now that you have arrived on a new planet, you need to start exploring it.

It wouldn't cost much (it's just a few images), and it's not far at all from what PSO used to be. There would have been a link and we could have a few related references that could be logic.
Imagine, for example you could say there is a musueum or a place to remind everybody of their homeground motavia and in that musuem you could put many references to the old games.
A funny thing would be to have dark Force's carapace (the one on dezolis) shown in that museum.
And if you want to make a special battle you could say that a something like a hermit crab (or pagurus bernhardus) but bigger, took DF empty shell. (that way you won't say that once again DF is appearing again but you would still fight it).

One of your goal could have been to work on making a teletransportor to make a link between Mota and the new planet (and consequently if you manage to make a teletransportor and make people from mota comming on the new planet, you could have access to new equipments coming right from the motavian labs). (The better the teletransportor, the more people come. The more people come, the more market there is and the more weapon you get to choose from)

I don't know if you agree with that but I think it wouldn't have been very complicated to make a link with the old games and the developpers could still be free to do anything they like (making new planets, making online games and so on) as long as they were to make a link...

Too bad they didn't made it.

[Abominae]

Wow... I think you just made my point for me...

[BenoitRen]

if they had showed us a link with the first serie I would have accepted it as a real PS game

You proved Abominae's point well. You can't accept that the first series is closed and that a new universe could be created with the same fundamental pieces of Phantasy Star.

It's just as pointless as arguing "is ps3 a real ps game???" hurr hurr.

[Edless]

Well, to me PS3 could be a real PS game because even though they went for an heroic fantasy game they told us that the world we are in is from Palma.
A space life boat they sent before the explosion.

It didn't cost them much, just a line to say "the ship is from Palm" and it didn't prevent them from doing all they wanted and having close to nothing in comon with the first PS games.

Still PS3, as we all know, is an unfinished game so we can't totaly acknowledge it as a PS-game (not that it is not part of Phantasy star but because it is not a GAME) thus it's not a PS Game.

It would have been if its creator finished it the way they wanted. (If they had had the time, before releasing it, they would have corrected and change many things in the game I think)

Edit :

The point I want to make actualy is that we could say that the PS games, (if you take them one by one) can be considered not to be such great games after all, but one of the greatest points of the serie is the continuity between each games (at least the old ones) and since it made the whole serie stand out of the crowd where is the point in spoiling it?
Where is the point in spoiling it considering it wouldn't cost Sega to add 2 sentences and 3 images at the begining of the game...

The shame is that without the linking we can just take the new phantasy star for what they are : not such great games, average game without depht (if they were great games people would be playing them, the PSU forums would be really active, and there would be some great fan arts on the games expressing the fan's interest, unfortunatly there is no activity, no buzz in comparision with other games FF, guild wars, Wow or anything).

To sum up, Instead of making an average game, Sega could have made a game that stands out thanks to the history it had accumulated with its previous opus.
Now anyway, it's too late and I agree with you, there is no point in arguing about it.

[Abominae]

Well, I agree with you on that point. I think PSO SHOULD have been linked to the original PS storyline (I also think that PSU is a perfectly fine game without the connection, tho it does suffer in lack of popularity because it DOES carry the Phantasy Star label) however, I think it would be wrong to judge the game based on the fact that it's an original story with several elements from the original PS story.

However, I do think it was a bad move to include so many things that were notable from the original story in PSO. It caused much confusion as to whether or not PSO was tied to the original story. Like all the Phantasy Star games (except PS4) PSO is plagued with several problems that made it only an above average game when compared to more successful series. Personally, though, I enjoy the game much more than it's above average rating suggests I would. In any event, It's only further proof that Sega has the talent to make truly memorable games, they simply refuse to risk large funding to get one. This pattern has led Sonic from being Mario's equal and constant rival to living in his spotlight. Sega should take a note from Nintendo. Look at how famous Mario is and continues to be! His darkest days were his GC days and that was the Smash Bros. Melee era... an era of great ass beatings among me and my friends...

[Mono]

The only clear links between PS and its predecessors were the four old men in New Mota who tell you that you are in one of the worldships that escaped Palma's explosion, the fact that you have to empower your weapons with the word Nei, and the name (not the look, though) of the final boss.

But then, 4 years later, Sega released PSIV. As you advance in that game, you realize that it is a clear continuation for PSI and II, and that PSIII was a side story unrelated to the main plot. But they decided to include a very clear reference to PSIII in that wreckage near Aiedo, telling you that the events of PSIII had really happened in the main storyline. It tied the loose end that could have been left is they just ignored PSIII and used PSIV only for a massive PSI revival (which is practically what they did anyway :^P). PSIII was suddenly patched to the main saga again by a few lines and pictures, not affecting at all the plot in PSIV from that point on. Cheap and effective.

You see, it didn´t take them too much time or brains or technical resources to include in the main saga a game that wasn´t originally even intended to be a Phantasy Star game at all to begin with, with reasonable success. They released PSO under great expectations about whether it was a sequel to PSIV or III, and they didn´t fulfill this, except for those who believe that Coral and Ragol were Palma, Motavia, Earth, or whatever rings their bell. We all were expecting to see the answers in a sequel, but PSO is already put away by PSU in therms of priority, and the questions are still there - who they are, where they are, when they are, where they come from, how it fits in the whole universe. It could have been solved easily if it was their intention to do it, as they did with PSIII.

The only acceptable excuse for this I can imagine is a marketing strategy to transform they Phantasy Star brand into a generic Final Fantasy series that will feature random stories in each game they release, without the buggering concern about a bigger storyline that would force them to make the next game following certain restrictions and exclude new players (consumers) that weren´t aware of the events in previous games. That´s a too high bet, since the name Phantasy Star is already associated with this kind of game series - it doesn´t attract as many new fans as a game of kind and quality of PSO (hell, it was beautiful and innovative for its time!) and PSU (not as much as PSO :^P) would, and don´t please all old gamers and hardcore fans of the original series. Sega has lost half a billion dollars last year, which is symptomatic of their marketing decisions.

They want to compete for the FF crowd instead of cultivating their own market phyllum, with minor success at both.

[BenoitRen]

Well, I agree with you on that point. I think PSO SHOULD have been linked to the original PS storyline

You're proving your own point now. It doesn't end.

PSIV was the finale, and the end of the Profound Darkness and his minions. Inserting PSO after it would kill its purpose.

Like all the Phantasy Star games (except PS4) PSO is plagued with several problems that made it only an above average game when compared to more successful series.

I strongly disagree. Phantasy Star Online was an excellent game for its time, and it lived for 7 years, which is quite long for a game with an online component.

I also strongly disagree about PSIV being unflawed. For one thing, it's way too easy compared to its predecessors. You could also argue that it's not all that original, considering all the phanservice (new word!). And of course, it's a bit short.

Every Phantasy Star game is special in its own way.

PSI for the good gameplay and world design, 3D dungeons, female lead, non-linear gameplay, animated monsters, and more things that were special in the era it was released.

PSII for its revolutionary dramatic story, well-animated monsters, great dungeon design, likeable characters, and more.

PSIII was rushed, we all know it. But the game still has a certain charm, and its generation system is a novel idea.

They released PSO under great expectations about whether it was a sequel to PSIV or III

But we all knew that PSIV was and still is the finale. You can't blame Sega for phans having unrealistic expectations.

[Mono]

But we all knew that PSIV was and still is the finale. You can't blame Sega for phans having unrealistic expectations.

I demand a PSIII prequel! >^O

[Mono]

Oh, also, when I was 14 (1993), a friend and I wrote a +/-80 pages long fanfiction about the survivors of Neopalm in a far away solar system. , PSIV wasn´t even out yet :^P Actually, THAT fanfic was entitled Phantasy Star IV :^P :^P :^P

They could so easily link PSO to PSIII, there were two kickin' worldships available to choose and send them to Ragol or whatever. And by doing that, they would have to pay me royalties, which would be nice :^P

*goes change his sig to "SEGA, YOU OWE ME MONEY"*

[Edless]

I also enjoyed PSO a lot. It might be the game I played the most on my DC and on my GC and it is true that PSO was more than awesome for its time.

On another point, I shall disagree with you Benoit when you say "PSIV is the end and that's all". There is always something to do when you have a little imagination. I'll take the example of the FF VII spin off. These might be bad examples and you might call that milking the cow but I shall say that what they did with PSU for instance isn't better (or is even worse).

Do I have to say that, Japanese storytelling industry might be the best when it comes to making a sequel for a teenage fan base. (the whole industry around the shonen Manga is the best proof of my assumptions), you can see that in any manga (From Harlock saga to Bleach and going by DBZ), so obviously saying "the end" doesn't have really the meaning of the end overthere.

One last thing to say is, when you are in buisness strategy you're told to listen to your market to make a win/win product (a product that'll bring you money and that will please the consumer).
In that optic, I don't think that fans are unreasonable when they say they want to enjoy the game they are playing.
If Sega was listening properly, I assume they wouldn't lose so much money and thus they wouldn't have had to prostitute Sonic in the Wii olympics.

There is nothing wrong in questioning and showing what doesn't work in a company that sustain deficit.


And for that I am happy to see that we are on a forum with people giving constructive criticism.

[BenoitRen]

On another point, I shall disagree with you Benoit when you say "PSIV is the end and that's all". There is always something to do when you have a little imagination.

That's not the point. I know you can always make sequels with some imagination. But PSIV was the finale. It even said so on the box! The whole purpose of PSIV is that it closes the series.

obviously saying "the end" doesn't have really the meaning of the end overthere

That's a different kind of end. For manga it's the end of the story. Like every ending of a Phantasy Star game. PSIV as a finale meant something different.

One last thing to say is, when you are in buisness strategy you're told to listen to your market to make a win/win product (a product that'll bring you money and that will please the consumer).

No. Most consumers, and especially fans, are stupid. Listening to them is a bad idea.

If Sega was listening properly, I assume they wouldn't lose so much money and thus they wouldn't have had to prostitute Sonic in the Wii olympics.

Prostitute? As if it's a sin that Sonic appears in other games! Please. Sega is no longer a first-party developer.

People keep saying Sega loses a lot of money, but I'm not sure that's true. The Sonic games always sell well, for one thing.

[Edless]

Well, when Robert Zemeckis made back to the futur and put the end, he really meant the end with no intention to make a sequel, do I have to say we got 2 sequels which are still quite awesome movies and we would have had a fourth episode probably if it wasn't for M. J. Fox's Parkinson.

I think the fans had quite an influence on making a sequel and I don't think they made the wrong choice listening to the fans.

Then for a sequel of that movie, I think that if there were no M.J.Fox, no Emett Brown, No Dolorean but just a time travel machine, I don't think it would find its public. Of course the title of the movie implies travelling through time but we can all see that what made the movie isn't about that.

The elements that made the serie what it is are a few things like seeing the McFly family, the Emet Brown character (along with his dog and experiences), Biff tannen family and among others the city hall clock (that isn't working) the whole thing in a mix of skateboards and cool attitude.

I think we could make a parallele between the back to the futur serie and the PS serie.
The good thing in the video game world is that virtual characters unlike actors don't age, enabling us to re-use them if there is a good scenario.

And Sega is still in deficit even though they are in a better situation than 3 or 4 years ago.
It appears they are going to have nice games coming out this year. Hope they can do well. (google Valkiriya to see a nice one for 2008)

[Abominae]

1 - Sega can end whatever series they want. The truth is, that their "ENDING" for the series is them closing the series. Official, tho it may be, it, like life itself, is always open to more "adventures" (hence, my own sequel and shameless promoting) and whatever else we put in the game. If I decide that PSG will have Sonic has it's main antagonist, I can do that. It's phandomonium.

2 - I think they have made several poor choices in their games. And PS is a "fallen from grace" series that was not much of an equal to the likes of Final Fantasy and Breath of Fire. Each game had great aspects... but many many flaws. PSO, for instance, continuously gives me the impression of very talented designers with a severe lack of experiance. I'll go into this further in my next post.

3 - coming soon