PSIII contradictory bullshit

[IndispensablePeaGuy]

There's some issues I have with Dark Force's appearance on PSIII. In PSIV, the origins of DF were made clear by Le Roof was that it was a lesser apparition of a malevolent being of black energy mass, The Profound Darkness. It's goal was to cause havoc in the Algol Solar System, which was actually a gigantic seal created by its polar opposite, The Great Light, during the millennial cycle, when the seal underwent through a power outage, enabling the PD to exert some of its power over the inhabitants of Algo.

What I don't understand is why would DF bother the surviours of the Great Collapse on those mobile worldships when its primary concern is the destruction of the seal? It doesn't make sense: A couple of rival leaders joined forces together to personally settle the score with the being that was pulling the strings behind the cultural prejudices surrounding the dome worlds by only sealing the thing? And then only to find that their descendants of 1000 years into the future have managed to finish the job that Orakio and Laya weren't prepared for? Give me a break. If there was some valid point that DF was meant to cause such trivial abuse, I'll concede to it. Though I think that that writers at the time fucked the antagonist up by highlighting that DF can exist without its main body -- the PD. It makes as much sense as a flower growing without its roots to draw the nutrients from.

Simply put, you kill off the source, the cycle ends. That's it. Finito. Having Dark Force in PSIII doesn't make the least bit of sense when you compare it with the ending climax that is PSIV.

[Sinue]

Well, it's not so much that the writers of PSIII messed up, as the writers of PSIV messed up. They changed the focus back to Algol when, originally, I believe the story was to follow the survivors of the Alisa III and even feature a return of Alis Landale. So rather than going way off in left field story-wise, I think they made the right decision in returning the series to Algol and wrapping things up in to a nice conciese little storyline and downplaying/ignoring the plothole.

To another degree, though, I think some of it may be explained if you were to try to link PSO to PS - in that, PSO lays the premise that the darkness cannot truly be defeated while the light still exists. They are two halves of a whole, and one side will continually resurrect in order to keep the balance. The way Dark Falz is presented in PSO seems, to me at least, to be a small part of the Profound Darkness which escaped and is now trying to gain power and evolve into the new Profound Darkness... one that is free of the seal. Numerous times it shows the want and desire to evolve, such as in Soul of Steel, and it needs a corporeal host in order to amplify and focus it's power in this world. The host it choses is Rico Tyrell, a female, which in a way eludes back to the Profound Darkness's final form in PSIV. Although there's no way of really speculating whether or not the Profound Darkness had a similar host core in which to focus and amplify it's hatred and malice.

That is all, however, assuming there is a link - which officially there is not at this time. So you're right in that the plothole still stands.

[Lord Khyron]

According to the Naflign retranslation of PS 2, the Earthmen HAD a Dark Force with them when they came to Algo.

That Dark force was not the millenium one. It was the one the Earthmen brought.

Dark force had to come from somewhere. Oh, if you take Lashiec as a example, he became Dark falz' WILLING servant. Dark Falz leeched off of Lashiec's anger and hatred.

Now.. if you look at the compendium you find: "Ohario Sa Riik and Aina Le Cille, succeed in cutting off their spaceship's remote control system from Mother Brain, and, before the fall of Gaila, evacuate many people in rescue ships left over from the time of the Conjunction.* Two people of the La Shiec bloodline are among them"

Now.. 2 people of the Lashiec bloodline exist on the worldships. Further to quote the compendium:

AW 341 - La Shiec learns the secret of the Algol Solar System's genesis. Forming a space-time gate, he comes into contact with the sealed-away spirit-life form. As a result, he summons the projected body of the Profound Darkness, Dark Force, and becomes its loyal servant. That same year, a reign of terror begins.

More compendium:

[Shiin and company fighting Rulakir] The third generation's enemy, Orakio's older brother Rulakir. He lost his family in the war 1,000 years ago, and, now jaded, he has sold his soul to evil.

The partner to whom Rulakir sold his soul was Dark Force. At the end of the life-or-death struggle, the spirit is destroyed. His taunting last words are, "I will revive in about 1,000 years..."


SO if you take this into account, Dark Force CAN EXIST if someone sells their soul to it. Just like Lashiec did to Dark Force.

Plus those people were the REMNANTS of Palma. None of the PS 2 characters were BORN ON PALMA. No one from Palma do you meet in PS 2.

It is easy to agree that Dark Force wanted to finish the destruction of the PURE PALMANS. Since PALMA is the originating planet of Humans.

The Dark Force on Alisa 3 is the same Dark Force the Earthmen bring with them. This is evident in NAflign's retranslation.

As long as someone SERVES Dark Force, it will exist. It feeds off negative emotion.

It isn't a plot hole.

[BenoitRen]

The Dark Force on Alisa 3 is the same Dark Force the Earthmen bring with them. This is evident in NAflign's retranslation.

Really. Show us the evidence, as I don't believe it is the same Dark Force at all.

[Lord Khyron]

The Earthmen refer to Dark Force in the exact same way Lutz does in PS 2 in Naflign's retranslation.

How did the Dark Force get to Earth if not from the Alisa 3? That is the problem right there.

You want to be technical, DF comes every 1000 years. Lashiec opened the seal in 341. Dark Force appeared in 341. Lutz is EXPLORING that seal and realizes it will open again in 1000 years. That puts the next DF at 1341. NOT 1284.

So the Dark Force of Ps 2 isn't the millenium one. That one came with the Earthmen.

Read the official compendium timeline..

AW 341 - La Shiec learns the secret of the Algol Solar System's genesis. Forming a space-time gate, he comes into contact with the sealed-away spirit-life form. As a result, he summons the projected body of the Profound Darkness, Dark Force, and becomes its loyal servant. That same year, a reign of terror begins.

AW 342 - Nero, investigating the reason behind La Shiec's transformation, is caught and killed at and by the hands of the special police. Alisa carries out his final wishes; she gains the help of Myau, Tyrone, and Lutz, and overthrows La Shiec and Dark Force. That year, when the governor of Motabia is told the news, Queen Alisa Landeel I is placed on the throne.

AW 349 - Lutz, continuing to research Dark Force, finds that the gate that La Shiec opened cannot be perfectly resealed, and realizes that the resultant fluctuations will therefore once again reach their peak after 1,000 years. He assembles his fellow Espers that are watching the gate and enters into cold sleep.

So if we go by that.. it would be 1341 when a DARK FORCE again appears. The one from Lashiec's seal breach. Not 1284

What happened in 1341 when Lashiec's seal breach opened again?

The Dark Force in PS 2 isn't one from Algo. Also that Dark Force is found in a box.

Dark Force (I-IV)
The projected form of the soul of the Profound Darkness that succeeds in physically manifesting itself every 1,000 years. The Profound Darkness, through absorbing "negative emotions" like hate and fear, weakens the seal of the Algol Solar System fashioned by the Great Light.

The Great Light (IV)
A spirit-life form that, after a battle to the death in a star system in a massive nebula long ago, created the Algol Solar System and sealed away the Profound Darkness. The Great Light then gave birth to Protectors of the Seal, the Parmans, the Motabians, and the Dezolians, on the three planets, and warned them all that the seal would weaken about every 1,000 years.

2,000,000 Years Ago - The war is settled. As a result of the victorious side sealing the defeated side away, one fixed star and four planets are created, "Protectors of the Seal" are made on the four planets, and one kind of sentient life form is allocated to each.

300,000 Years Ago - The entire race of victors is wiped out. Except on the fourth planet, Ryucross, the beings of the other three planets, with the passing of each successive generation, begin to forget the mission of those made Protectors. Meanwhile, in their inter-dimensional prison, the sealed-away spirit-life forms transform into a wicked being, the accumulation of spirits of hatred and vengeance, and, at its core, a profound darkness is formed.

Protectors of the Seal (IV)
When the Great Light created the Algol Solar System and sealed away the Profound Darkness, it allotted sentient life forms to each of three planets. They were called "Parmans", "Motabians", and "Dezolians".
Year after year, the people fulfilled their duty and protected the seal, but, with each passing generation, the Protectors came to forget their mission, and it now lives on only in the myths of each race's civilization.

Ryucross (IV)
The fourth planet of the Algol Solar System. It is said to make only one revolution every 1,000 years, and it has a long, elliptical orbit. One cannot find it without the aforementioned Aeroprism, and no person alive knows where it is. When the seal on the Profound Darkness weakens every 1,000 years, it draws near the other three planets, its duty to warn of what's to come.

So as we see.. Dark Force would come out of the seal every 1000 years. 1000, 2000, 3000

Now Lashiec summoned him 959 years early than he should have been. BUT! If the seal would open again in 1000 years, that is 1341!

NOT 1284.

Therefore that Dark Force IS ONE that came with the Earthmen.

[Mister Death]

...does this mean there was a race of beings like the weird light things you encounter on Rykros living before the Palmans/Motavians/Dezolisians?
are they emanations of the great light, like the dark forces are emanations of the profound darkness?

[BenoitRen]

How did the Dark Force get to Earth if not from the Alisa 3? That is the problem right there.

That's not a problem at all. It's a magical creature. I'm sure it can travel through space. There wasn't even a PSIII when PSII was made, so we can't count on PSIII's Alisa III.

You want to be technical, DF comes every 1000 years. Lashiec opened the seal in 341.

I don't really trust the compendium on this, honestly. It looks like a retcon of sorts. Contrary to popular belief, the Japanese PSI manual does NOT mention anyting about this at all. It says the same thing as the English PSI manual: Lashiec joined a religion and became corrupt.

Also, why would a sole old man have the power to open the seal? That doesn't make sense at all.

...does this mean there was a race of beings like the weird light things you encounter on Rykros living before the Palmans/Motavians/Dezolisians?

Absolutely.

are they emanations of the great light, like the dark forces are emanations of the profound darkness?

No, they're a tribe of spiritual beings. In the Japanese games, it wasn't a being that split into the Great Light and the Profound Darkness. It was a civilisation of spiritual life forms that split into two tribes.

[Dorrinal]

Simply put, you kill off the source, the cycle ends. That's it. Finito. Having Dark Force in PSIII doesn't make the least bit of sense when you compare it with the ending climax that is PSIV.

LE ROOF: Throughout time The Profound Darkness has seethed with
animosity and the need for revenge. And once every thousand
years, when the strength of the seal weakens, the most intense
part of the The Profound Darkness' hate-filled spirit is able
to break through the portal and come to Algo in physical form.

RUNE: So that's what Dark Force was!

LE ROOF: Every time, a courageous person would defeat Dark Force and
bring about a brief period of peace by expelling it. But The
Profound Darkness is patient, and finally it destroyed the
planet of Parma in battle.

That's what we know about the relationship between Dark Force and The Profound Darkness. DF is a "part of [PD's] hate-filled spirit". We are given no other details of the nature of that relationship. So at least one of these assumptions you make is false:

a) Dark Force cannot exist without The Profound Darkness,
b) The Protectors completely destroyed PD's spirit,
c) The events of PSIII happen after PSIV and not concurrently (does PSIV make it clear?), or
d) The writers had any clue what they were doing and didn't just make something up on the spot.

EDIT: Added a snippet of the OP's post for context.

[Mister Death]

No, they're a tribe of spiritual beings. In the Japanese games, it wasn't a being that split into the Great Light and the Profound Darkness. It was a civilisation of spiritual life forms that split into two tribes.

wow! i might have to write a fic about that

b) The Protectors completely destroyed PD's spirit,

or there could be more than one PD. le roof only said that a spiritual entity created algol. he never said that he was the only one in existence.[/code]

[Dorrinal]

LE ROOF: Ah, Protectors, you have carried out your mission well. You
haven proven yourselves, and I can enlighten you with the
secret of Algo's genesis. Many billions of years ago... a
spiritual life form split into two lesser beings, who
eventually began to fight...

[cinema scene]

LE ROOF: After a long and terrible battle, there was finally a victor.
The winner banished the enemy spirtual life form to another
dimension.

We call the victorious side The Great Light and the defeated
one The Profound Darkness.

There is only one Profound Darkness.

Perhaps you meant the Japanese "tribes" Benoit mentioned. A tribe of mini-Profound Darknesses (Darkni?). Enough to make a "Monster of the Week" serial TV show out of Phantasy Star. Now we're getting somewhere.

[Lord Khyron]

That Dark Falz feeds off of negative emotions. Hence he was sustained by Rulakir for 1000 years.


"The real enemy, Dark Force, who feeds on the evil in the hearts of people. La Shiec was corrupted body and soul by his magic power and was nothing but a pawn."

from the Compendium..

In Ps 3, Rulakir has kept Dark Force alive with his hatred. Dark Force feeds off of that and turned Terminus into a bad place.

"Term referring to the fight between Laia, a girl with the power to control monsters, and Orakio Sa Riik, who commanded a robot army. The utterly devastating battle destroyed the world's highly learned civilization.
Dark Force deluded Laia's heart and caused her to start the war, but she finally came to understand that she was being used and, together with Orakio's power, overthrew Dark Force. "

Mm.. Used by Dark Force, feeds off people..

If we use PSO as a example, Dark Force can exist by stealing souls. If you give your soul to Dark Force, he can live.

I don't see how that is so complicated. We have 3 instances of Dark Force being worshipped and fed by negative emotions.

And whose to say a Prophallus isn't just a baby Dark Force?

[Dorrinal]

What I don't understand is why would DF bother the surviours of the Great Collapse on those mobile worldships when its primary concern is the destruction of the seal? It doesn't make sense: A couple of rival leaders joined forces together to personally settle the score with the being that was pulling the strings behind the cultural prejudices surrounding the dome worlds by only sealing the thing? And then only to find that their descendants of 1000 into the future have managed to finish the job that Orakio and Laya weren't prepared to finish? (snip)

Let us begin with what we know. We know that DF feeds off negative emotions. We also know the people of the Algo system are the designated (default?) Protectors of the Seal.

Now for a couple of assumptions that are reasonable to me. Let us assume the PD knows the people are the Protectors. After destroying Palma, the PD has an incentive to destroy as many of the Protectors as possible to ensure its safe return to Algo's dimension.

In order to accomplish its goal, DF (via MotherBrain) destroys Palma, thus fatally weakening the seal. Then it jumps from ship to ship, destroying each from the inside using civil war. It simultaneously completes its mission to destroy the Protectors of Algo and generates most satisfying levels of negative emotions. Sufficient justification?

[Mister Death]

i meant there could have been Profound Darkness-like entities outside Algol. le roof wouldn't even know about them, its purpose is to tll the genesis of algol, not the whole universe.

one might have even followed the earthmen from Earth... SOMETHING has to have destroyed Earth

maybe its a long shot though

[BenoitRen]

one might have even followed the earthmen from Earth... SOMETHING has to have destroyed Earth

The Earthmen destroyed Earth, as they tell you at the end of PSII. Dark Force manipulated their hearts, leading them to abuse nature and ultimately making their planet uninhabitale or even destroyed.

But yes, there certainly could be more spiritual life forms.

[Dorrinal]

Yes there could have been other entities. But now you're just making stuff up. Occam's Razor applies here: try not to use any assumptions that don't come from the games themselves.