All Noah is Lutz peeps....What about PSII

[King Lassic]

Undoubtedly we have all heard / read the noah / lutz discussions. I personally do feel that noah is lutz, but after reading the other side of the story I notice one glaring problem with those on my side of the arguement. <p>Those that believe Noah is Lutz never seem to talk about Phantasy Star II. It is as if the only evidence for noah and lutz being the same person lies in PSIV. So I guess my question comes to this: If the series had ended with PSII could we still prove that Noah is Lutz?<p>Curious

[ThePeaGuy]

I would argue against your claim, but instead I'm going to paraphrase what PSP has said in regards to this debate:<p><blockquote><i>Originally posted by PSP</i><p>...Lutz is Cheez-Wiz.<p>-Corey<br></blockquote><p>Thank you, and good night. %) <br><p>[size=small][Edit by ThePeaGuy on [TIME]1115413092[/TIME]][/size]

[Alis in Wonderland]

do we actually know if the Lutz referred to in ps4 is PS1 or PS2 Lutz? <br>they look virtually identical. what if the ps4 Espers revere PS2 Lutz ather than Noah for some reason?

[Siren]

Well, I disagree. The most outstanding evidence is inclusive in PSII; the cryogenic chamber. If there was Lutz after Noah, there would be no real reason for it to exist. In context, the cryogenic chamber is only there to make Noah's existence still possible.

[Mizehrith]

<blockquote><i>Originally posted by Alis in Wonderland</i><p>do we actually know if the Lutz referred to in ps4 is PS1 or PS2 Lutz? <br>they look virtually identical. what if the ps4 Espers revere PS2 Lutz rather than Noah for some reason?<br></blockquote><p>We know that the Lutz mentioned and shown in PS IV is Noah from PS I because he's said to have fought alongside Alis Landale about 2000 years prior to the setting of PS IV, and PS I is set about 2000 years before PS IV. However during PS I, as you know, the character Noah fights alongside Alis but bears uncanny resemblance to Lutz, so these facts remove any confusion about whether or not they're the same. <p>It also becomes clear that the Lutz in PS II is the same Lutz that's mentioned and shown in PS IV -- who we know is Noah after considering the above information -- when we observe that, in PS II, he emerges from a cryogenic capsule in the Esper Mansion, and then later on observe that Chaz points out a technical manual for artificial hibernation while examining the bookshelves in the Esper Mansion. Since we do not see a cryogenic capsule anywhere in the Esper Mansion during PS IV, however, this is clearly a reference to the cryogenic capsule that appeared in the depths of the Esper Mansion in PS II -- the one that Lutz emerged from. In PS IV, the Telepathy Ball from which Rune inherited Lutz' will and memories now resides in the depths of the Mansion. Also, during the conversation that takes place after rescuing Kyra from the carnivorous vines in PS IV Wren suggests that, logically speaking, the only way Lutz could've remained alive for as long as he is believed to have is if he had been placed in cryogenic hibernation. This is obviously another reference to the capsule we saw Lutz emerge from in PS II.<p>When we consider these facts, it becomes clear that Noah, Lutz (PS II) and Lutz (PS IV) are all incarnations of the same character.<br>

[Saner2]

Noah is Lutz. Rune is not Lutz. <p>

[Monocromatico]

There is only Nutz.

[Alis in Wonderland]

if he could cryogenically preserve himself why use the telepathy ball?

[Benoit]

Points that show that PSII Lutz is PSI Lutz:<p>The quote " - The glorious man who used to fight to save Algo is buried here.". This refers to the cryogenic chamber.<p>The ressemblance in the portraits.<p>The cryogenic chamber.<br> <blockquote>if he could cryogenically preserve himself why use the telepathy ball?</blockquote><br>Because it seems that even though it could preserve him for a long time, it couldn't preserve him forever. Not to mention that he wasn't in a state to fight anymore either. So he made the Telepathy Ball.

[Malakai]

<blockquote><i>Originally posted by King Lassic</i><p>Those that believe Noah is Lutz never seem to talk about Phantasy Star II. It is as if the only evidence for noah and lutz being the same person lies in PSIV. So I guess my question comes to this: If the series had ended with PSII could we still prove that Noah is Lutz?<br></blockquote><p>If you had read the most recent thread regarding this topic then you would have undoubtedly seen the numerous references to PSII, some of which have been reiterated here.

[DezoPenguin]

Ignoring PSIV entirely, it would be more difficult to state affirmatively that Noah is Lutz. It would, however, still be possible.<p>1) They're both bishi Espers with light blue hair wearing hooded mantles and circlets.<p>2) The cryogenic stasis chamber implies great age, not specifically 1000 years, but certainly a long, long time of waiting.<p>3) The fact that Lutz responded to "Alis's scream" to awake and protect Rolf, last of the Landale bloodline (okay, from English PSI and PSII we don't know the word "Landale," but...), specifically links Lutz to Alis in some meaningful way.<p>4) The Esper who speaks of a man being buried in the Esper Mansion states that this man "used to fight to defend Algo," which certainly would describe a PSI hero.<p>It makes for a more interesting argument, though.

[Dorrinal Blackmantle]

Good to see you here on PSCave Mr. Penguin <p>Sadly all the points you make are pure speculation!

[DezoPenguin]

<blockquote><i>Originally posted by Dorrinal Blackmantle</i><p>Good to see you here on PSCave Mr. Penguin <p>Sadly all the points you make are pure speculation!<br></blockquote><p>I know! That's why it's so much more reasonable that a person who played PSI, then PSII, could come to the conclusion that Lutz was some new guy. It's kind of left open to the player to decide the implication of the events. PSIV really cements it for me, with literary significance added to further textual evidence.

[Benoit]

I disagree. PSII quite clearly elaborates to me (and others, I'm sure) that it's the same man.

[Alis in Wonderland]

Lutz didn't fight in ps2 either but he didnt leave anyone to replace him. why was a Lutz on the party in ps4 but not ps2? did the original Lutz have to die first?