Phantasy Star Generation 2: English Translation

[xrick]

Of course, you're free to post screenshots but you've gotta take into account, as well, that there may be bickering all the same. Sooner or later this could come up.
I'm not saying I want Kyence and those helping her with this project to go change the Big Bad's name, that's out of question. But I'm free to give my opinion, I guess?

I was gonna keep on with my ranting but, like I stated before, it's a waste of time to keep bickering with nostalgia goggles. Have a nice day, until next update.
And by nostalgia goggles, I don't mean those who want the japanese names but the english ones, because I treat "Dark Force" as an english naming.

[PrinceMoonrise]

It was "DARKFALZ" (one word) in the original Sega Master System Phantasy Star 1, the first official translation of anything in the franchise:

English

Japanese original:


...Of course there are logical reasons for why they did that, main reason being the hideously limited character spacing limit, which is why we had truncations like "Alis" instead of "Alisa". It seemed especially hard-policy on something that was a character or enemy object type, whereas since the planet names were mostly in story and dialogue, didn't have such a strict limit. This limit of course affected the Genesis Phantasy Star II which had crap truncations like "Palm", "Mota", and "Dezo" in addition to the 4-letter character names.

Sad part about all these bastardizations is that the original creators often never had a hand in how things were changed for foreign audiences. From what I've seen (and I have a LOT of Phantasy Star resources), I feel there hasn't been definitive enough evidence of original creator's intent, for a romanized spelling of Dark (Falz/Force/Faltz/Phallus). Even "Force" doesn't quite work since "fu o - su" is how "Force" is typically spelled in japanese, not "Fu a lu su" as seen in the japanese Master System PSI katakana.

So whatever works is cool with me. If I ever get to meet with Yuji Naka again, or get to meet Rieko Kodama, this will be first on my list of questions, haha.

[xrick]

Wow... You already met Yuji Naka in the flesh?
Too bad the guy is no longer in Sonic Team, Sonic IP needs to be revived from Iizuka's evil paws...

But, with all due honesty, I don't believe they're gonna remember the truth about the Big Bad's naming back then...

[BenoitRen]

It's written like it has always been written, in katana (ダーク ファルス)

Then please translate it correctly instead of mistranslating it. It's not your call to make if "Dark Force" is more appropriate or not.

If people really want to be nitpicky, Falz is not possible.

Other translators disagree.

The wiki imply the Dark Falz from PSO is not related with the Genesis ones, so it's better to not use the same name for them anyway.

That's not a valid reason, because at the end of the day it's supposed to have the same name per the Japanese version. Also, the same creature was also called "Dark Falz" in the original Phantasy Star.

I also did the same choice as Kyence in my translation, if people want to play a translated game, they should accept the translator choice or else, play in japanese/do their own translation

But you didn't make a choice. You mistranslated a name.

Like when we talked about it before, it wouldn't be the first time a japanese guy would do a mistake when trying to write a foreign name.

And it wouldn't be the first time an enemy would receive a ridiculous name like "Dark Phallus".

As far as I'm concerned, (but I am no translator), PSO and PSU are not part of PS trilogy (I am not even sure Rieko Kodama or Yuji Naka worked on those).

Yuji Naka was heavily involved in Phantasy Star Online. For Phantasy Star Universe, though, he was merely an executive producer.

If Word of God matters to you, though, it's important to note that Rieko Kodama herself said that the proper name is "Dark Falz".

That's what we call translation and editing choices.

The problem is that fans expect a fan translation to be an accurate translation, not an edited version based on the translator's naming preferences.

[xrick]

Not wanting to sound a jerk to others by saying this, but... Thanks for the help, BenoitRen.

[Kyence]

I was bouncing back and forth between the naming. if WOG is "Falz" then I'll change it. Now, I had mentioned way back that both Blaw and I had taken a new look at the technique names.With the help of people on this forum, I think quite a few were found to be pronunciations of German words. A good example is Foi, which someone on the forum pointed it out is closer to the German word Feuer. I think early on I mentioned using PSO nomenclature for techniques and the consensus at the time was to start fresh. What is better at this point? Is there WOG on those? I had asked for input a while ago and posted some stuff, but if releasing a beta with the retranslated technique names is going to make everyone unable to enjoy the game, it might be better to toss them out. Ill print a list tonight when I get home for work and let you all decide.

[xenowildfire]

Really? People are going to start and argument over whether it should be Dark force or Dark Falz when it is so close to release? Dark Force was the name in Phantasy Star 2 was it not?
If it was a mistranslated then I guess the team 25 years ago mistranslated it then too.
I think it should be Dark Force just like it was back on Sega Genesis.
Use the English Sega Genesis names got 55% compared to use the full Japanese names 38%, so it seems out voted to me.
I don't care what way it goes, but I think it should be released on how it is translated now and then go back in and fix the the name from Dark Force to DarkFalz and some other names and such for people that want to nitpick like BenoitRen and xrick.
Kyence and her team took time out of their lives to translated this game so people can play it but if you want to nitpick this bad then don't play it, no one is twisting your arm.
I know that all fan translation can never be perfect but I am damn glad someone takes time out of their own lives to do it.

[Tryphon]

If Word of God matters to you, though, it's important to note that Rieko Kodama herself said that the proper name is "Dark Falz".

I read this interview and IIRC it was not so clear.

[FlamePurge]

I say just keep it how it is, personally. This is only one person saying something. It shouldn't impact enjoyment at all, honestly.

(Also, Kyence and/or Tryphon, please get back to me ASAP. I really need help. I really do not want to play through PS generation:1 just to match up the item/spell/equipment descriptions with their accompanying inventory entry.)

[Blaw-]

It's written like it has always been written, in katana (ダーク ファルス)

Then please translate it correctly instead of mistranslating it. It's not your call to make if "Dark Force" is more appropriate or not.

It is, though I'm not involved in the english translation of this part/name anyway. Editing is a part of a translation. Go ask the Jojo Bizarre Adventure translators with all the names changes they had to do if their translations are not translations anymore because of that.

Other translators disagree.

How would you retranscribe a "z" without the "zu" sound except if it come from a language when the "z" sound as a "s". And do you really think they would have mixed two languages in only one name? English for "Dark" and another one for "Falz" ? It would be completely silly and I never saw that in any game (two languages used for only one name).

If Word of God matters to you, though, it's important to note that Rieko Kodama herself said that the proper name is "Dark Falz".

I'm an atheist, so... Maybe she doesn't care and would have also say yes if the guy would have asked "Is it Dark Phallus" ? As long as she didn't gave any explanations about the name, I don't really see why someone should give it any importance, especially when you know japanese are pretty bad with foreign languages (we could saw with other equip names they often do typos). You wouldn't even imagine the number of french names they butchered. Not to mention I don't have any sources to check such an interview nor it is pretty clear in it. If you can have a tweet from her definitively confirming it and explaining the meaning of the name, then yeah, it will matter to me.

That's what we call translation and editing choices.

The problem is that fans expect a fan translation to be an accurate translation, not an edited version based on the translator's naming preferences.[/quote]

It's always the case. Litteral translations without any editing are the worst, any decent translator (professional ones) would say you that. Fans should be already happy to see people spending hundred of hours to translate a game for free. If they don't like the work, it's not a problem, no one force them to use it anyway.

What is funny is most dialogs of the translation could be wrong and you wouldn't even be able to tell the difference if they seem rather logical (would need to understand japanese and compare both versions to spot the problems), as long as the name you want is used, which is pretty sad (not to mention lots of other names have been guessed, and are not sure. NPC names, techniques names, so it's not only for this boss name).

But if you want to do your own translation with the names you want, feel free to do so, I don't think Tryphon would oppose to that, but be ready to spend hundred of hours in it, as it's have a lot of texts (it's not just "translation" a few names, it's translating ~500 Kb of text to have a complete translation).

Not having anymore to say about that, as I said, it's been debated months ago and does not need another debate.

[xrick]

I don't believe such WOG chance will come around another time.
And yes, Blaw may be right and she may have answered only to please.

But, if such a lucky chance does come up again, maybe a few questions could be made:
- "Dark Force" or "Dark Falz"? And proper reason behind it, if possible.
- Names of the Spells & Techs of PS1/PSG1 & PS2/PSG2 and reason behind them, if possible.

This has already become a discussion of naming preferences and, like I said, if translation went this way, let it stay until new WOG does come around to help get everything clear...
If it ever comes to happen, of course...

Kyence, you and the others went through a lot to get this big project complete, don't worry about us and release the game as you believe it to seem fit.
As long as there are tools to rearrange script, anyone later on is free to make changes as each deems it fit.

[Kyence]

I made the changes to the game to change it to Falz - the name doesn't come up that much so it wasn't that hard. I'm stressing about the technique names now.

For a recap: early on in this project, the Japanese names of items and techniques were shared on this thread. It turns out that a lot of the word appear to be phonetic katakana of German words. For me, it helped me learn what an "Emel" and a "Nish" was: "Ärmel," meaning "sleeve" and "Harnisch" meaning "armor", respectively. Collaborating with users on this forum, we took a fresh look at the techniques, and it strongly suggested that the same thing happened. Due to only five spots available for a tech name in the original game, a good chunk of the Japanese phonetics couldn't even be used, so we ended up with stuff like Foi and Gra. I thought it was a good thing we noticed this, and pretty neat we all collectively did this. It's also kinda cool to me in that while other games use mostly Latin or English for magic-related stuff, the original techniques sounded German. PS2 was a rebel

As promised, here is info on the names of the items and technique names. This is taken from a "Translation Notes" file I will be providing with the patch in its beta and final state. Please give me some feedback within the next couple of days. I had asked before, and I'm asking this one last time before the beta goes out.

Item Names:

It turns out item names were translated into Japanese from languages besides English. The main one appears to be German. We did our best to recreate the word as it would appear in its native language.

Harnisch: In the Genesis version, this usually showed up as "Nish" due to space constraint. Harnisch is German for Armor.

Fibrillae: In the Genesis version, this became a "Cape." It showed up in PS3 as a "Fiblira." Fibrilla is an obscure/archaic term for fibrils or fibers. The item description indicates this is a dress made from certain fibers. However, we decided to make it in the proper plural form with an "e" at the end.

Ärmel: In the Genesis version, this was an "Emel." It also appeared in PS3. It turns out that this is German for Sleeve, and the Japanese katakana is a phonetic translation of the German. It's worth mentioning that the Truth and Green Sleeves are spelled out in phonetic English; why they decided to be inconsistent is for future scholars to debate.

Claw: The "bars" were always claws. There was no mistaking that translation so how did claws end up as bars? Perhaps it was due to space constraints, or claws were too violent???

Scale: The Japanese is pronounced as "scale." While a scale is part of a knife, we think it's more of an engineering scale. An engineering scale is a tool like a ruler. We've seen it show up more in British English vs. American. Only Huey(Hugh) and Keinz(Kain) can use them. They are described as tools (the scales, not the characters!).

Schneller (Boots): Called "Shune Boots" in the Genesis version. German for "Speed" which makes sense since these increase the wearer's agility.

Heilsam (Boots): Called "Hirza Boots" in the Genesis version. German for "Health" or "Wellness" or something like that.

Espadrilles: Called "Sandals" in the Genesis version. French origin. It's a type of sandal or shoe. They are considered a specific style in describing women's shoes.
---------------------------------------------

Section A02: Techniques

We decided to avoid CamelScript for stronger technique versions. For example, the next level of Rester is Girester (Res & Gires in the Genesis game).

Hinaus: Called "Hinas" in Genesis version. German for "Out." Takes you out of dungeons.

Rückkehr: Called "Ryuka" in Genesis version. German for "Return." Returns you to last visited Data Memory bank.

Sacra: Called "Sak" in Genesis version. We're assuming it's based off of "sacrifice" since that's what the spell does. It could refer to "sakura" the cherry blossom, a common motif in Japanese imagery of something beautiful dying all too soon, but we went with the former.

Schneller: Called "Ner" in Genesis version, which increases speed. German for "Faster."

Defend: Called "Deban" in Genesis version. This one was a weird one to handle and the hardest one to decide on. The Japanese is "Devando" which in German is "Die Wand" or "The Wall." The technique puts up a defensive barrier, so the "De" could also be an abbreviation for "Defensive" but "Defensive Wall" in this sense is redundant and would take up too much space. In the end, we were going to go with the French translation's idea of calling it simply "Wand" and leaving out the D./De/Die part - but it doesn't make much sense in English so we almost decided on simply "Wall." Then we saw there were some definitely English words for some of the other techniques, so we decided to keep it simple and call it "Defend."

Falser: Called "Forsa" in Genesis version. This was another strange one. We weren't sure if we would go with Forza which is Italian for "Strength." Some Japanese transliteration of "False" look similar to this. Since the technique reduces a robot's accuracy, we figured it was sending out false energy for the robot's sensors to screw up. In the end, we decided on "Falser."

Shinparo: Called "Shinb" in Genesis version. "Shinpai" is Japanese for "Worry/Anxiety." This technique reduces a biological enemy's defense. This was one of the rare ones we kept as is since it seemed the most likely intention - after, it's hard to protect yourself from attacks if you're a nervous wreck!

Drunk: Called "Doran" in Genesis version. We think it's supposed to be the English word "Drunk" - the technique reduces a biological enemy's accuracy - incidentally the same thing imbibing too much alcohol will do! We got a kick out of this one and left it as such.

Schutz: Called "Shu" in Genesis version, and increases defense. German for "Protection."

Gadge: Called "Gaj" in Genesis version. In some old English "Gadge" was a term for an instrument of torture; however it could also be short for "gadget." Since it's a technique that damages machinery, we figured to change the spelling so it matches those two possibilities.

Limit/Limiter: Called "Rimit" and "Rimet" in Genesis version. They end in different letters in Japanese. One is for biological enemies, one is for machines. They cause paralysis.

Seizures: Called "Shiza" in Genesis version. The Japanese is "Seizures." The technique block a biological enemy's special attack - a seizure could understandably do that.

Konter: Called "Conte" in Genesis version. German for "Counter" as in "counter-move/attack." It disables a robot's special attack.

Prozedun: Called "Brose" in Genesis version. Prozedur is German for "Procedure." It can cause "instant death" in a robot. It's possible that it's short for "procedure down (shutdown procedure)". We went the same way.

Ager: Called "Eijia" in Genesis version. Originally, we were going to spell it as "Alter," German for "to age." Since the English spelling suggests the pronunciation the Japanese suggests and sounds very close to the German word...and means the same thing, we used Ager. The technique damages machinery by corroding it.

Vampir: Called "Fanbi" in Genesis version. Written in Japanese is the German pronunciation for "Vampire." The technique drains an enemy's HP into the caster - yup, that's vampiric, all right!

Glanz: Called "Tsu" (of the Githu/Nathu line) in Genesis version. The "tsu/thu" came from the last syllable in the Japanese word. Glanz is German for "shine/brilliance," descriptive of a lightning-based attack.

Gravito: Called "Gra" in Genesis version. The Japanese spelling left little room for debate on this one. The technique has always been a gravity-based attack, so it's likely meant to resemble the word "graviton."

Sonde: Originally in PSO as "Zonde." It's a thunder attack. It could very well be a weird transliteration of thunder. However, the way that it's spelled in Japanese is often used for Sonde or radiosonde. Sonde as is spelled is actually a meteorological device sent into the atmosphere via balloon and often used to track storm data. That was as good as it was going to get in justifying the spelling.

Zan: This is the same spelling as in the Genesis version. It's a way to pronounce the kanji 斬, which means to cut/chop. This is a wind spell that "slices" the enemy apart. Huzzah for a straightforward technique name!

Water: Originally in PS4 as "Wat," though it may have shown up in the Japanese version of PS3. It's probably supposed to be "Water."

Feuer: Called "Foi" in the Genesis version. This was the first technique to be pointed out as the Japanese being a phonetic transliteration of German for "Fire."

Megiddo: Called "Megid" in the Genesis version. Megiddo is the supposed location of Armageddon in the Bible. This technique is the most powerful attack in the game, and causes damage to both the enemy and the party.

[Manji]

Looks great to me!
I always wondered why the spell names were so strange, I had no idea they were Germanic in origin!
I don't mind re-learning a few of them if they're a better representation of what the original spell was intended to be called.
The Dark Falz thing, to me, is of little concern.. You should just make a small .ips patch to patch in "Falz" and leave it as "Force" in my opinion; That would please the nitpickers!

I'm so pumped for this game, I'm gonna take a couple sick days to make my way into it!! ^_^

Thank you all for your hard work.

[xrick]

Well, from what I just went to check, PSO went with Foie, Barta, Zonde, Grants & Megid.
I have no problems with whatever way you go with the names, I'm only pointing them out.

[Kyence]

Well, from what I just went to check, PSO went with Foie, Barta, Zonde, Grants & Megid.
I have no problems with whatever way you go with the names, I'm only pointing them out.

This was the exact issue I had and asked about early on. I still wonder what they were smoking when they came up with Barta My early draft of the names involved using the PSO nomenclature for the shared techniques and then used the "retranslated" ones for the rest. The consensus I received then was "if you are going through the trouble of doing this, why hold the PSO names to a higher standard? Be consistent." Now, I learn that the PSO is gospel? I am frustrated having to revisit this, and I don't want to have to revise technique names three or four times during the public beta testing.

So, are the PSO technique names synonymous with WOG or not? I'm not a huge PSO player, nor have I deep-seated knowledge of the game creators' interviews or supplementary literature. Someone with that information, please clarify.