Phantasy Star Cave Message Board

nothing wrong with flash sites unless they are bad flash sites. I find that to be a stupid preference to not visit a site. -_-

Flash sites are wrong. They:

• require a proprietary plug-in to view
• have accessibility problems
• don't resize
• use Flash, which sucks in performance

If you're making a website, you use HTML pages, not some proprietary application. This is the whole point of the web! I, for one, refuse to install the plug-in for this exact reason. Not to mention that the last version available for Win95 likely wouldn't work with most Flash sites anyway.

So I was essentially complaining that I can't visit the site because of someone's stupid Flash fetish.

considering that a grand majority of the internet uses flash and most of them use it for video applications and online games I find that to be a rather lazy arguement. And i've yet to come across webstes that had issues with their flash plug-ins. Only time flash pug-ins were an issuewere because I didn't have the latest verion avail or because I somehow screwed up the installation.

So because a lot of websites use it for video and games, it's okay to use it for a website?

The web is built on open standards, made to be accessible to everyone. Do you really think it makes sense to be forced to get an extra, proprietary plug-in just to view some website? Which is composed of text and images? Give me a break.

I'll word it differently: you're relying on one single vendor to make Flash 'websites' available to you. What if, for example, you're using a mobile phone without Flash support, that otherwise renders HTML and CSS fine? Oh, sorry, you're screwed.

Or how about this: there's now Silverlight by Microsoft. How would you like it if you wanted to visit a website and you couldn't because you didn't have Silverlight installed?

What's next? Apple publishing a plug-in called iVector that then gets used to make websites as well, requiring another proprietry plug-in to view?

Please try to understand my point before just tossing it aside as "stupid" and "lazy".

simple I will install silverlight. You're making a big deal out of nothing.

And when I jump from the bridge, you will jump too? You will kick a man to get a candy bar when asked?

It's obvious that you're not even trying to understand.

But I guess that's why you're a (l)user and I'm a developer.

Uhhhh correct me if I'm wrong, but nearly all video game publishers seem to go out of their way to make elaborate, flashy Flash site for each of their games these days, so I don't see it as a 'fetish' if they're just following established procedure.

I mean, sure, all the information they have can easily fit onto an HTML page, and the Flash app they're using is messy, clunky, unwieldy, slow, and annoying as all hell, but...

....wait, why the hell are they using flash? They're not Square.

BenoitRen wrote:And when I jump from the bridge, you will jump too? You will kick a man to get a candy bar when asked?

It's obvious that you're not even trying to understand.

But I guess that's why you're a (l)user and I'm a developer.

Whats there to understand, you are being stubborn for staying with windows 95 and being picky to not use or install a highly popular and frequently used form of multimedia.

I've split the thread as this has gone quite off-topic.

See, you don't even try to understand. It's almost as if you didn't even read what I wrote. It's not because I use Win95, or being stubborn, at all. You conveniently ignored most of my points.

I don't expect you to care, but please be more open-minded.

i'm the most open minded person on the planet and to be honest all that came out of your post was opinions. Oh and being a developer and a user means absolutely nothing in this regard. Its all personal preference. You don't like flash because you have to install a small file on a 300gb hd and it you choose to keep your monitor res very low.

Ugh. The fact that a lot of people do something doesn't mean it's a good thing. Let's just say Flashblock exists for a reason. (I don't even know how I managed to navigate the net without it.)

HuBBs wrote:i'm the most open minded person on the planet

You're just setting up yourself for ridicule with this statement. I sure laughed.

You certainly aren't, as at least 2 people I know can understand my position, and they aren't web developers either.

to be honest all that came out of your post was opinions

Stop kidding yourself. Opinion? The only opinion you'll find is that I think Flash sites suck.

The core of my argument revolves around these points that I mentioned before, which are facts:

• Proprietary
• Has accessibility problems
• Don't resize
• Bad performance

It is also a fact that

• the web was built on open standards (examples: HTTP, HTML, CSS, JavaScript)
• just because everyone does it doesn't mean you should

Try to think up an argument instead of making blanket statements and nit-picking about side details of my posts.

Oh and being a developer and a user means absolutely nothing in this regard.

Actually it does. Web developers know how the web works. They care about how it works. They care about standards.

A user? Not so much.

A user doesn't care how something works. He just wants stuff to work and get on with whatever he or she is doing. A plug-in to view content? Fine. Register to view content? Fine.

If the user wants to see the Dancing Rabbits(TM), (s)he will see the Dancing Rabbits(TM)!

You don't like flash because you have to install a small file on a 300gb hd and it you choose to keep your monitor res very low.

This is irrelevant. Especially as I have more than one computer! Again, you missed the point.

The fact that you still sit there on the other side of the world and continue to think that you know me better than I do is quite funny. You don't see what I do or say or listen to the other 23 hours and 50 minutes I spend away from this board. The fact that you have absolute no doubt that I'm not open minded proves how you aren't.

Now lets look at your core arguement since you want to constantly whine about the same BS all the time.

Proprietary - the fact that you say this dumbfounds me as by definition this words fits with about a zillion things related in the comptuer world. Not just Flash. This word fits perfectly with itunes, windows, osx, yadda yadda yadda.

Has accessibility problems - again never had this problem unless I did smething wrong on my end. i.e. screwed up the installion.

Don't resize - there are flash sites that do actually. there are of course programs you can download that let you resize them as well.

Bad performance - that all comes down to your pc really and weither you are running outdated software or operating systems(last I checked you are using 95 on one of your non linux boxes?).

Oh BTW that statement where you called me a user is slighty incorrect. I do continue to develop websites. And quite frankly I don't care to get your approval to be consider a developer. My site development goes beyond the near dead PSOtavern

I still don't see the point of what you are whining abut flash. All I see is blah blah blah flash bad. blah blah I have valid accurate opinions.

I was a user at one time, but I stopped that a long time ago. =) Chill... flash is flash. HTML is HTML. Some like old, some like new. Some know about how things work, some don't. It's how the world turns. That's why we have so many cultures, people, and religions on earth. YOU make your own choices. Can't we all just.. get along? =(

This isnt leading anywhere. Thread locked.