A Proposed Richer, More Interesting PS2 Storyline...

[Kalisiin]

I had another thought about Tyler/Kain...and this scenario also makes use of Darum...and I believe, enriches the storyline...

It would ALSO have made more sense, if Kain were to leave the Party after the death of Nei...if Kain were made the Biologist (after all, no more Biomonsters on Mota, right) and Hugh were made the Wrecker...so he then goes after machines.

So here's how this would all work:

Start with Rolf and Nei.
After going to ARIMA, you get joined by Rudo, the Hunter.
After going to OPUTA, you get joined by Amy, the Doctor.

(Just before this there is some possible untapped potential with Darum...and Daurm being a Thief could join the party thus eliminating the need for Shir)
In my scenario, though, Darum does not immediately join you at the bridge where Tiem dies.

So, right now you have Rolf, Nei, Rudo, Amy (Darum has gone off his own way. He still kills Tiem, but he does not kill himself.)

Now, after going to ZEMA, you get Anna, the Guardian and Hugh, the Biologist
My own idea would be to make Hugh a Wrecker, instead. More on this later....

Now, after going to KUERI, you get KAIN, the Wrecker (whom I would prefer to see as a Biologist) for reasons I will explain later.

Now, you have Rolf, Nei, Rudo, Amy, Anna, Hugh (Wrecker in my scenario), and Kain (Biologist in my scenario)

Now, after going to PIATA, you get joined by Shir, the Thief. This is where I'd have Darum join instead. Darum would have more REASON to join than Shir did. Shir even says she cares little for justice...and that the "little outing would be packed with thrills for her." Which seems to be her sole reason for joining.

In my scenario, Darum has discovered, in his travels, that Mother Brain orchestrated the kidnapping of Tiem...so Darum joins you...because he wants revenge on Mother Brain for "causing" Tiem's death. (This eliminates the need or use for Shir)

This would also enrich the story, and add an element to it.

So, now, in my scenario, you have

Rolf, Nei, Rudo, Amy, Anna, Darum, Hugh (Wrecker) and Kain (Biologist)

As we know, Kain's main reason for being in the game is an infatuation with Nei. He, as a Wrecker, isn't even very useful yet, since you have no machine enemies. This is wny he makes more sense as a Biologist...because, in my scenario, upon Nei's death...Kain's sole reason for being in the Party evaporates...and so he would leave the Party. Thus his being a Biologist would make more sense, as he leaves...right at the time when no more Biomonsters exist on Mota.

So, now, your Party has the following:

Rolf, Rudo, Amy, Anna, Darum, Hugh (Wrecker) - since Nei died and Kain left. Shir was never an issue in this scenario, as Darum replaces her.

Now, you go thru the Dams. You get sent to Gaila. You get rescued by Tyler, the Space Pirate...who is already, by definition an outlaw.
In fact, he probably was in the area of Gaila with the intention of breaking the Party out of Gaila...because he would know that the Party were named as criminals who had caused Mother Brain to go crazy...it would be a nice piece of resistance against Mother Brain to break these people out of Gaila...is what Tyler would be thinking.

The Party, on the other hand...sees Tyler as a useful ally in their quest against Mother Brain - AND HE HAS A SPACESHIP!!! Plus, being a Space Pirate, he has encountered many strange and exotic things...which is how he knows about Lutz...rolf and Party knew nothing of Lutz or Dezo until encountering Tyler. The Party wants to be able to use Tyler's ship...and they see Tyler as a natural ally....so they ask Tyler, and he agrees to join the Party, and allow them use of the ship.

Now, you have Rolf, Rudo, Amy, Anna, Darum, Hugh as Wrecker, and Tyler.

With the addition of Tyler, you now gain access to his spaceship...eliminating the need for the Spaceship on the Tower of Mota. Don't tell me everyone in Paseo would have NOT NOTICED a big-assed spaceship parked up on top of the Tower all that time! As a little twist, you could possibly find out Tyler is related to the Governor of Mota...in your final encounter with the Governor.

Now, you're off to Dezo. You have a Party with seven people...just as you do in the original...

A possible wrinkle could be for either Lutz, himself to join yor Party...or for him to send one fo the other Espers along with you to help you. But this part isn't really a part of my scenario...it is mentioned in another thread....and this seemed like a good place where that could get incorporated. In a way, this would be nice, too, because then you end up with a Party of eight, again....Lutz/Esper replacing Nei.

Me, personally, I like a final Party, myself, of
Rolf, Rudo, Amy, Anna, Darum, Hugh, and Tyler.

So, what do you think of this scenario?
It makes use of the NPC's of Darum and Tyler...and enriches the story, I think.
(The wrinkle above would also make more use of Lutz, or one of the Espers)

My scenario DOES require switching roles with Hugh and Kain, though...making Kain the Biologist and Hugh the Wrecker.

I WOULD miss that fine-assed SAVOL spell, though! Maybe that is one that Tyler could learn. Tyler, being a Pirate...has probably been around to some pretty exotic places, and thus would have seen and learned a lot of neat stuff. Darum would still be a Thief for you...but would also have a better attack. I have the idea, though, that Darum would not be much for Techniques.

Now, if you also got joined by an Esper...that character could learn the minor healing...and the HINAS and RYUKA that you lose when Shir is no longer a part of your Party (It IS nice to have a backup HINAS and RYUKA available in case Rolf gets killed and can't be revived!)

[Tryphon]

Too much men !!! (unless Lutz is a she... NO IT CAN'T BE !!!)

[DarkMyau]

I don't like Darum as a party member. He is a bad guy and if he is as strong as he looks why wasn't he going after the scoundrels, instead of attacking innocent people? So I feel he isnt party material. But I do think his whole quest needed to be expanded a bit. with an option to actually re unite him with Tiem. He will still go to jail, but she will be ok. A redemption thing.

Rolf, Nei, Rudo, Amy and Anna work well. Rolf should have his magic weakened as he is OP and Anna should have her magic re balanced to give her an extra option or two.

I don't like Hugh or Kain. They are weak characters who do have a few useful spells, but not enough TP to use them regularly. So they are both just weak fighters and pretty useless compared to the big 5 I named. So I would exclude both of them and replace them with Tyler and an Esper (guy or girl) from the Esper mansion.

Now onto Shir, I like her character but would increase her magic so she becomes a selection headache. Do you take her to use her magic, or do you leave her out because she steals from time to time?

I would also love to have a senario where you can save Nei and also have Neifirst join your party. That would be soooooo cool!

[Kalisiin]

Hummmm...Darum isn't Party material but Neifirst is?
Okayyyyyy....

Here's another idea with Darum, them. Darum almost kills Tiem, but realizes before he swings the blow that it is Tiem...and stops.
They go off together.
Darum and Tiem learn in their tarvels (not yet with the Party) that Tiem's kidnapping was orchestrated by the Mother Brain....and done in order to turn Darum to crime (remember, Darum was NOT a criminal until Tiem was taken) Him being re-united with Tiem, and his discoveries...hardens his purpose against Mother Brain - who is the real culprit. Darum, himself, is not a bad guy.

He knows, however, the Party won't accept him, because he gave them trouble before. So he trains Tiem...and Tiem would then join your Party to replace Shir.

Tiem picks up theiving skills from her dad, Darum. This also would address the "too many men" problem...which I - as a female - do not even have a problem with...why the HELL do we always have to have balance of male and female characters in these games? If you think about it...in the original, including Nei...you have eight characters...FOUR MEN and FOUR WOMEN.

Please explain to me WHY we have to have exactly the same number of each?

So now...Darum could join the Party as a guy, if the Party accepts him...because he wasn't always a bad guy, and becomes a good guy after (and, besides...as criminals themselves, why would the Party have a problem with another who was made a criminal by Mother Brain?)

OR

If you really don't like Darum...and you REALLY MUST maintain that male/female balance...Tiem can join instead.

Even she would have a better reason for being there than Shir does!

[Kalisiin]

Here's another Darum possibility for you....

Maybe Darum tured to crime instead of fighting scoundrels...becase he was all alone, and the scoundrels were in groups, and he did not feel he was strong enough to fight them that way.
But he sees the Party....when they approach him (before you rescue Tiem) as people who can help him. So HE joins your party, and blocks off the Bridge until after Tiem is rescued. So in the early game you have

Rolf, Nei, Rudo, Darum

You could even make it that Tiem, after being rescued, joins your party, replacing either Anna or Amy...and taking on the role of that character, being a Doctor or a Guardian. Personally, I think she ought to replace Amy, the Doctor.

So then, going into OPUTA, you'd have a Party of
Rolf, Nei, Rudo, Darum, Tiem.

Then, after ZEMA, you could add Anna, and Hugh (Wrecker in my scenario)
Then, after KUERI, you could add Kain (Biologist in my scenario)
Now you have your full Party up to the point of Neifirst:

Rolf, Nei, Rudo, Darum, Tiem, Anna, Hugh (Wrecker), and Kain (Biologist)

Now, after defeating Neifirst, Nei dies and Kain deserts the Party.

Now, after GAILA, Tyler joins. In fact, a fun wrinkle might be to have Tyler be in some way related to Kain...or maybe Tyler learned of your existence and what you were doing because of Kain...and that was how he came to be at Gaila to break you out.

Now you would not be too mad at Kain for leaving you, because, if he hadn't, he would not have met Tyler...and you would have died when Gaila crashed into Parma.

There's some potential here for fleshing out some of the NPC's stories and making them into Players.

[DarkMyau]

I admit NeiFirst doesn't work on any level as she is a psycho who wants to kill everyone. But it would still be cool for her to see the error of her ways and with her sister join the party. Nei and her could also have some great back and forths. Neifirst: "Why not just cut her head off?" Nei: "This is the cloning labs. How is killing people going to help us??"

And yes I am officially Anti-Darum

[Kalisiin]

I admit NeiFirst doesn't work on any level as she is a psycho who wants to kill everyone. But it would still be cool for her to see the error of her ways and with her sister join the party. Nei and her could also have some great back and forths. Neifirst: "Why not just cut her head off?" Nei: "This is the cloning labs. How is killing people going to help us??"

And yes I am officially Anti-Darum

Fair enough, then...what do you think of my idea of Tiem jpining the Party then, taking the place of Shir...who has NO EARTHLY GOOD REASON to be in the Party, except for sheer kicks...as she herself even says. Here's even a possible for you...

Let's suppose Darum never turns to crime...but encounters the Party, which, at the time, is just Rolf, Nei, and Rudo.
He enlists their help in rescuing Tiem...which they succeed in doing, and then Darum and Tiem go off their own way.

Now you have Rolf, Nei, Rudo, Amy (Doctor), Hugh (Wrecker in my scenario), Kain (Biologist in my scenario), Anna, and then Tiem joins where Shir otherwise would have. Darum taught Tiem his theiving skills, so she can steal. In this scenario, Darum learns the plot to kidnap Tiem originates with Mother Brain, and therefore seeks revenge...but is killed. Tiem comes to you, when Shir otherwise would have joined...telling you of Darum's death, and what they learned about Mother Brain's plot...and Tiem joins you.

Then, after Neifirst...Nei dies and Kain leaves.

Then Tyler joins after Gaila. Tyler learned of the Party by an encounter with Kain, who had left your Party. Tyler, himself an outlaw according to Mother Brain...would therefore be inclined to seek out this Party of people also named criminals by the Mother Brain. He would hear of the Party's capture, and have gone to Gaila with the itent tobreak them out. He winds up saving them, joining the Party, and allowing them use of his ship.

So you have a final Party of

Rolf, Rudo, Amy, Anna, Hugh (Wrecker), Tiem, Tyler.
OK, so this gives you four guys and three girls - this is the balanace that exists at this point in the original story...and it does not involve Darum, himself, joining the Party. But it would flesh out Darum's story a bit...and it would also flesh out Tyler's story.

In this scenario, Darum is a very temporary character the sole purpose of his joining would be to use the Party to help free his daughter, Tiem (this is more in line with the kind of character you like to ascribe to Darum...as a ne'er-do-good) - and it would give you some extra strength early in the game when you really kinda need it. this would also flesh out the Darum/Tiem story...and give you, in the end, Tiem as a character...who would thusly have a better reason for being in the Party than Shir ever had.

Basically, in the end...this diverges from the original storyline in the following:
Hugh and Kain switch jobs, Kain is later replaced by Tyler, and Shir is replaced by Tiem.

Another side benefit to this scenario, for Darum-haters like you is that in this scenario, Darum dies...and Tiem lives.

[DarkMyau]

LOL am I so bad for not being a Darum fan?? Oh well.

I guess he would be better than Hugh and robot wrecking Hugh. Who I almost never used.

This is how Phantasy Star 2 should have started
http://www.phantasy-star.net/fanfics/fa ... dline.html

I love this story.

[Kalisiin]

A biut on the lobng side...you'd have to find a way to cut that down for the average RPG player....but as a PS2 fan it is very interesting...as it explains several things that were never very adequately explained to this point.

[DarkMyau]

THe first bit could easily be removed, but I didn't write it so I doubt I could change it. (I did write something, and I hope it will be displayed in the fan fiction section...its a PS3 story though)

Th eimage of Lutz magically holding the ship together as the other esper's rushed to rescue the passengers is epic and would have been a great way to start Phantasy Star 2.

[The PS Logo]

After going to PIATA, you get joined by Shir, the Thief. This is where I'd have Darum join instead. Darum would have more REASON to join than Shir did. Shir even says she cares little for justice...and that the "little outing would be packed with thrills for her." Which seems to be her sole reason for joining.

Rolf and Amy are the only party members in the game whose reasonings are not selfish, like Shir's:
Rolf is just doing his job assigned to him via his boss, and gets mixed up in the world saving because of Mother Brain.
Nei joins Rolf because she doesn't want to be left alone. Understandable given her past, but it's still selfish.
Rudo joins because his personal tragedy traumatized him, providing him a chance at killing biomonsters as an act of revenge.
Amy joins because she wants to help the injured and wounded along the way.
Hugh joins because he wants to learn about the biomonsters
Kain joins because he is infatuated with Nei
Anna joins because Rolf "defeated" Darum, one of those hunters she hunts down.

In regards to improving the storyline, I like some of the options presented here. TYL(e)R would make a good substitute for Kain, with more HP but a little less TP and can use Rudo's weapons. An Esper would be a good substitute for Hugh, with some healing and support techs to keep him/her from being useless... or better yet, Hugh temporarily leaves, then returns as a more useful esper-in-training. Darum and Tiem getting killed they way they do in game, however, do serve the plot - the first sign that something is very, seriously wrong with PSII's ideal setting.

I did have a few thoughts of my own on story/plot improvements:

Resurrecting Nei: More of a gameplay aspect, but I can see the team going to Motavia's university on info, and while there, Shir steals a blank recorder. Kain, having knowledge on technology, uses the blank recorder to get the Biomonster data from Climatrol as it destructs, allowing the clone labs to revive Nei after Neifirst is killed.

More Army Eyes: The games never expected the player to defeat them, so the game hangs when they are defeated. Here, after Rolf and company defeat the Army Eyes and return to Paseo and report to the Governor-General, another set appears and threatens to destroy Paseo unless Rolf and crew surrender unconditionally.

A New Base on Dezoris: When Rolf and crew are sent to Gaila, Rolf's house is rendered inaccessible. The team finds an empty house in a Dezorian town that serves the same purpose, and is later revealed to be protected by the Espers under Lutz' s command.

More Nei Equipment: Everyone gets a Nei weapon and one piece of Nei armor. If Nei has been resurrected, instead of Nei equipment, Lutz can sense that she is able to tap into the Nei power. This would also explain why she's so powerful in PSgII.

Tyler is an Earthman: This might cause controversy, but is as good as an explanation to his outlaw status, and provides backing for the knowledge he has of Dezoris and the real threat of Mother Brain.

[Kalisiin]

I like some of those ideas, The PS Logo!

Resurrecting Nei is an interesting idea...but it only works if, as you say, Nei can then become much stronger (and use some better equipment) otherwise, her usefulness would evaporate once you got to Dezo.

I like the thing about Army Eyes...although I have personally never managed to beat them...though I knew you could. I assume you'd need to at least have MEGID available to do it, though.

DEFINITELY like the idea about the new base on Dezoris....but how do the people you left behind at the old house get there?

More Nei equipment would be terrific. Actually, this can be done, somewhat, if you are using an emulator. There's cheat codes that allow one to purchase just about any item from the store in Paseo....if you know the codes. I have purchased extra Nei equipment in a game I am currently playing. But Kain and Rudo have NeiArmor for example.

Tyler is an awesome fit for this game...I really am surprised they did not make him an active character in the game. I'd like to see a fan game made that makes use of Tyler. I, myself, do not have the skillz to do this. But I could work with someone to write a plot/storyline. I'd still like to see Tiem replace Shir, though. Let Tiem live...maybe you take Tiem to see her dad...but Darum has already been killed, when you take her...and then she joins to avenge her father. Or perhaps she joins later...after learning how Darum was used by Mother Brain. There's a way to work Tiem into the script, I know there is.

She'd be a lot better in the party than Shir.