Is Lutz... Noah?

[Lassic's Chllun]

Noah of PS1 is not Lutz of PS2. I believe Lutz is the SECOND GENERATION NOAH. That is that, and Mike Ripp can...er, never mind.

[ThePeaGuy]

<blockquote><i>Originally posted by Dorrinal Blackmantle</i><p>Quit being so obtuse LK! I'm sick of repeating myself: I agree that Noah is the First Generation Lutz. That does not prove that the person whom Rolf meets at Esper Mansion is Noah! i.e., there is no evidence that Lutz from PS2 is "first generation".<br></blockquote><p>Then how come the Telepathy Ball wasn't present on that era? <p><p>[size=small][Edit by ThePeaGuy on [TIME]1114630770[/TIME]][/size]

[Starlight]

<blockquote>I wonder if Starlight has read any of it since? She might have a headache now </blockquote> <p>Dorrinal, I AM getting a headache. %) <p>Couldn't it just be simple? Couldn't it be that Noah was <i>the</i> and only first generation Lutz? It's just confusing because according to PS, there are different generations of Lutz's. Noah is indeed Lutz in PS I, the evidence you need is the Japanese PS version.<p>BUT is Noah ther SAME Lutz in PS II?

[Dorrinal Blackmantle]

Sorry for my contribution to the headache!<p><blockquote><i>Originally posted by Starlight</i><p>...Noah is indeed Lutz in PS I, the evidence you need is the Japanese PS version.<br></blockquote><p>Actually the main problem is that the Japanese PS cannot be brought in as evidence for the English version - because they are two different games. That is the so-called "continuity theory" that most folks here either dislike or don't understand.<p>Pea Guy: to me, that is a bit more convincing than all the dialogue of PSIV. But even though it is not onscreen, that does not mean the Telepathy Ball did not exist, or that Noah didn't use a different method to transmit his thoughts to his successor. Call it a stretch if you want...

[Siren]

<blockquote>So in order to understand that Noah is Lutz, one must know about the Japanese version of the game? That is absurd. The games released in the U.S. are all we need to know. <p></blockquote> <p>Quite right. And <b>before</b> I was exposed to the fan community of Phantasy Star, I had completed both PSI&II and drawn the conclusion that they were indeed the same entity. Albeit being a little confusing, I assumed that perhaps he went by a different name for some reason or another. The most obvious clue would be the visual portrait of Noah/Lutz's face.<p>Now, are you telling me that the japanese team developed a game where they were the same entity <b>with the same portrait</b> and the english team developed a game where they were different enitities <b>with the same portrait</b>?<p>No. That would be endlessly excessive.

[LaconianShot]

<blockquote>Accept the fact that we are talking about the same thing; the only difference is that I think the versions stand independently from each other. </blockquote> <br>I'm saying that the concept of these versions each standing on their own is absurd and illogical. Ah, perhaps I should've explained myself better... the english <b>translation</b> is an adaptation at best of the Japanese version. The inconsistencies in the series do not constitute two different continuities. Like I said, the continuity theory was made only to suppliment the gaping hole in Mike Ripp's arguement... and in itself does not have a whole lot of validity. Ooops, PSI's localization bungled the translation... there <b>must</b> be two continuities! Let's apply that to every single other game that's had a poor translation too.<p>Dorrinal, you didn't read that post that I linked you to, did you?

[Lord Khyron]

I'm going to quote the damn Compendium once and for all, that will prove they are the same. Since the compendium does not contradict the PS IV text to prove Noah - Lutz..<p> <blockquote><br>Thray Walsh [Rune Walsh]<br>A master magician who, of course, can use techniques, but who also wields magic thought to have died out long ago. He's an obnoxious man who constantly treats Rudy like a child, but, in truth, he is the inheritor of the will and memory of Lutz, the one who fought with Alisa 2,000 years ago.<p>AW 349 - Lutz, continuing to research Dark Force, finds that the gate that La Shiec opened cannot be perfectly resealed, and realizes that the resultant fluctuations will therefore once again reach their peak after 1,000 years. He assembles his fellow Espers that are watching the gate and enters into cold sleep.<p>AW 822 - The Earthmen's spaceship stronghold, Noah, invades the Algol Solar System.<p>AW 843 - The "Conjunction", the alignment of the three planets, occurs. Due to gravitational interference, the orbits of Parma and Motabia are shifted, and cities are annihilated. Thanks to the Earthmen, the escape shuttle containing the remaining members of the ruling class is destroyed, and the Landeel bloodline appears to be wiped out.<p>AW 845 - Mother Brain, secretly controlled by the Earthmen at the heart of Noah, begins construction of its centrally controlled network on Parma, and reconstruction advances at an accelerated pace. Lutz awakens. He goes into hiding with his followers on Dezolis.<p>AW 1299 - Lutz dies. His will and memory are carried within a gem in a temple in the Esper Mansion's inner sanctum.<p>Esper Mansion (II, IV)<br>The building in which Lutz gathered his fellow Espers after the fall of the Landeel dynasty. The assembled comrades created the Nei series of weapons and Elsydeon to guide the heroes foretold to eventually appear and prepare them for Dark Force's rebirth. [A note on the "Nei weapons" - the raw Japanese in the book reads "Nei shiriizu no buki" - "Nei series's weapons". Since the term "Nei series" is used in the book to refer to Nei, Neifirst, and their species, the legendary arms could be either the series (as in group or collection) of "Nei (the one girl) weapons", or the weapons named after the entire "Nei series (as in species)". Anyway.] <br></blockquote> <p>Lutz put his memories into the telepathy ball after PS 2. Lutz also fought with Alisa.<p>They are the same person for the sheer fact of PS IV. The dialogue proves they are the same.<p>It Lutz is not Noah, then that means someone else went to the Air Castle after Alisa did, and this person fought with Alisa also.<p>That is preposterous. Only 4 people fought in the air castle prior to PS IV.

[Rika]

Noah is Lutz. It's a fact.

[ThePeaGuy]

<p><img src='http://www.efkm.com/dezoris/ps_lutz5.gif'><p>Judging from their portraits, the two Lutz' look identical to me.<p>If Lutz is really not Noah and that he is the second generation Lutz, the host's individuality would not be erased after the transaction of Lutz' memory from the Telepathy Ball. Look at Rune from PSIV, for example, he may be the fifth generation Lutz, but does not act or look anything like Noah. <br>

[LaconianShot]

<blockquote>I'm going to quote the damn Compendium once and for all</blockquote> <br>Yeah, Mike Ripplinger thought of that one too. Seperate continuities? It's convenient that the "Japanese continuity" also encompasses the compendium.

[Lord Khyron]

Does the Drama CD referring to NEI as "Nei-Second" create a 3rd continuity?<p>Or what about the Russian/Taiwanese version of PS? And what about the NES PS IV?<p>Are those seperate continuities? No they are not.<p>One name change doesn't make a seperate continuity.<p>P.S. If there was a English Compendium, It would say the same thing.<p>Oh! Does the ORIGINAL PS 2 story, of which Capowski put up, the one that was scratched for Eusis, does that make a seperate continuity? No it doesn't. <p>Mike uses two continuities cause he wants Rolf to kill Lashiec in the Air Castle in his "Great Collapse" story. If you look at his stories more, He claims there was a great war after PS 1, of which there wasn't. <p><p>[size=small][Edit by Lord Khyron on [TIME]1114654870[/TIME]][/size]

[Dorrinal Blackmantle]

Imagine that, the Compendium written for the Japanese only covers the Japanese versions of the game. It's not only convenient, it's true! I figure that if an English Compendium were written that it would give some explanation making Noah Lutz but such conjecture isn't worth any more time. It would have been nice for SEGA to clear it up decisively.<p>Lord Khyron: we are not discussing other versions of PS, just the one in which someone changed "Lutz" to "Noah". If the Russian version calls him Lutz then so be it; it has just as much impact on the English game as the Japanese version (zero).<p><blockquote><i>Originally posted by Rika</i><br>Noah is Lutz. It's a fact.<br></blockquote><p>Wow, I never thought of it that way! I wish you were around ten years ago to clear this all up for us, Rika.<br>

[Dorrinal Blackmantle]

<blockquote>So in order to understand that Noah is Lutz, one must know about the Japanese version of the game? That is absurd. The games released in the U.S. are all we need to know. </blockquote> <br><blockquote><i>Originally posted by Siren</i><br>Quite right. And <b>before</b> I was exposed to the fan community of Phantasy Star, I had completed both PSI&II and drawn the conclusion that they were indeed the same entity. Albeit being a little confusing, I assumed that perhaps he went by a different name for some reason or another. The most obvious clue would be the visual portrait of Noah/Lutz's face.<br>(snip)</blockquote><p>Absolutely! But I know someone who thought the opposite, that Lutz was Noah's pupil and successor. You should have seen the look on his face when I described the Japanese version of the storyline to him <br>

[Lord Khyron]

To know Noah and Lutz are the same person, All you need is the PS IV Script.<p>That right there proves it. If you wish to ignore the script, you don't deserve to play the games at all. <p>[size=small][Edit by Lord Khyron on [TIME]1114706986[/TIME]][/size]

[Dorrinal Blackmantle]

We're walking in circles again... the PSIV script doesn't prove a thing!