Is Lutz... Noah?

[Gipper]

<blockquote><i>Originally posted by Benoit</i><br>You can say that Espers have two names. Noah's master had two. Tajim and Tarzimal. It wouldn't be such a stretch then to say that Noah also had Lutz as a name.</blockquote><br> It isn't that much of a stretch to go from Tajim to Tarizmal. But Noah to Lutz? That is totally different.

[ThePeaGuy]

<blockquote><i>Originally posted by Benoit</i><br>You can say that Espers have two names. Noah's master had two. Tajim and Tarzimal. It wouldn't be such a stretch then to say that Noah also had Lutz as a name.</blockquote><p><blockquote><i>Originally posted by Gipper</i><p> It isn't that much of a stretch to go from Tajim to Tarizmal. But Noah to Lutz? That is totally different.<br></blockquote><p>Explain why it is totally different, please.<br><p>[size=small][Edit by ThePeaGuy on [TIME]1114552881[/TIME]][/size]

[Lord Khyron]

<blockquote>Rune clearly refers to Noah as the "first generation Lutz" but it still doesn't say anything about the Telemental from PS2. </blockquote> <p>The people in the Esper mansion and their dialogue quotes Lutz as being the same as 1000 years ago.<p>EVen in PS IV, Lutz is there to help save Algo.<p>How can you claim the identity of the man called "LUTZ" in PS 2 isn't Lutz?<p> <blockquote><br>He told us that he shall once more awaken, when you and your men arrive here. <br>He had been placed under cold sleep in order to wake up in the future and protect it. <br>He had decided to hide here in Dezoris when Mother Brain appeared. <br>He rises from his eternal sleep every decade. <br>We protect him, since it is our duty that was passed on from every generation. <br>Cold room guards<p>We are most pleased to see you. He who we have protected up until this day now awaits. <br>Personally, I would like for him to sleep in peace without disturbance... (sleep chamber opens) <p></blockquote> <p>Even the dialogue in the retranslated PS 2 puts Lutz in PS 2 as Lutz.<p>I don't see where Dorrinal's problem is. <p>Script proves they are the same.

[Gipper]

The names: the letters are similar for Tajim, but Lutz-->Noah? No logic.

[LaconianShot]

Let's dispel this foolish thought, shall we? Noah is Lutz... as can be proven without the "Japanese continuity" as needed...<br><blockquote>in the English continuity.</blockquote> <br>The first thing that <b>needs</b> to be addressed is the continuity "theory". Now, despite my remarks above, there are <b>not</b> two continuities. How Mike Ripplinger ever came to such an absurd conclusion stuns me, though I believe it was intended to combat one of the major holes in his theory... the consistency of Noah/Lutz's name in the Japanese version. Noah/Lutz is refered to <i>only</i> as Lutz in the Japanese version... there is no Noah. Thereby we can logically assume that the Lutz in PSI is the Lutz PSII (especially since the presence of a cryogenics lab enforces this). Well, certainly the light this truth sheds on the arguement puts a large hole in Mike Ripplinger's "theory", doesn't it? Mike Ripp couldn't have <i>that</i>, could he? Enter the continuity theory... that the Japanese version couldn't be applied to the English version as it was a completely different continuity. One of the most illogical theories Mike Ripplinger has ever put forth, and that's saying quite a bit. Such a theory cannot possibly be taken seriously, as it's only purpose was to supplement the gaping hole in the "Noah is not Lutz" theory. To paraphrase Myau of Algol...<br> <blockquote><i>Algol-star-system.net</i><br>... the english translations of the Phantasy Star series can be at best, seen as a version of the Japanese translations.</blockquote> <br>And this is true, is it not? After all, which came first? It's far more logical to assume that the translation teams were not in coordination when they translated then it is to say that the entire Phantasy Star universe is divided by continuities. Logic is the key in this arguement.<p>Now, onto the main fare, so to speak. And of that, I have nothing more to say then what has already been stated (a long time back) by Mizehrith and Van Garrett on Hubbs Doctor's board. Read the entire thread... it proves with in-game conjecture that Noah is Lutz. Word to the wise: you'll have to stand Prince Noah's foolish banter and poorly drawn conclusions.<br>http://psotavern.3.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=60&st=0 <br>That should rap this up. Props to Van Garrett and Mizehrith's excellent arguements.

[PSP]

Noah is Lutz. Anything else is the result of people trying too hard to twist things to their liking. You might as well say Lutz is Cheez-Wiz. <p>Missagh, please close this topic. Everything relevant has been said, anything else will cause me to riddle my monitor with bullets <p>-Corey

[Monocromatico]

Lutz is Noah´s evil twin. 100% fact.

[Dorrinal Blackmantle]

<blockquote><i>Originally posted by LaconianShot</i><br>(snip)<p>The first thing that <b>needs</b> to be addressed is the continuity "theory". Now, despite my remarks above, there are <b>not</b> two continuities. How Mike Ripplinger ever came to such an absurd conclusion stuns me, though I believe it was intended to combat one of the major holes in his theory... the consistency of Noah/Lutz's name in the Japanese version. Noah/Lutz is refered to <i>only</i> as Lutz in the Japanese version... there is no Noah. Thereby we can logically assume that the Lutz in PSI is the Lutz PSII (especially since the presence of a cryogenics lab enforces this). Well, certainly the light this truth sheds on the arguement puts a large hole in Mike Ripplinger's "theory", doesn't it? Mike Ripp couldn't have <i>that</i>, could he? Enter the continuity theory... that the Japanese version couldn't be applied to the English version as it was a completely different continuity. One of the most illogical theories Mike Ripplinger has ever put forth, and that's saying quite a bit. Such a theory cannot possibly be taken seriously, as it's only purpose was to supplement the gaping hole in the "Noah is not Lutz" theory. To paraphrase Myau of Algol...<br>(snip)<br></blockquote><p>So in order to understand that Noah is Lutz, one must know about the Japanese version of the game? That is absurd. The games released in the U.S. are all we need to know.<p>Just by the fact that you have to differentiate between two "versions" of the game indicates multiple continuities. You seem to hate the word "continuity" so let's just use the word "version", which you are comfortable with. Accept the fact that we are talking about the same thing; the only difference is that I think the versions stand independently from each other.<p>The English version of the game is different from the Japanese version of the game. In the English version, it is not clear that Noah is Lutz.

[Dorrinal Blackmantle]

<blockquote><i>Originally posted by Monocromatico</i><p>Lutz is Noah´s evil twin. 100% fact.<br></blockquote><p>OMG LIES!<br>Actually I got this from the official script:<p><blockquote><br>- (Lutz)- You finally made it. I'm Lutz, the last telemental on Algo. You seem surprised that I know you name. Don't you remember? This is the second time we have met. I saved you from death after an accident on a spacetrip with your parents when you were 10. What woke me was Noah, my evil twin, screaming about how he caused the space accident.<br></blockquote><p>There you have it. Noah is not Lutz.

[PSP]

...Lutz is Cheez-Wiz.<p>-Corey

[Benoit]

I read this theory a long time ago on the PSDB, and it can't be disproved if you believe Noah is not Lutz:<p>Noah is actually a robot. He used parts to simulate magic. After PSI, he blasted into space. But what no one knew, is that inside Noah's robotic body, there were Earthmen! Yes, the robot was a ship on its own, with microscopic life in it. You actually get resized when teleporting to the Noah in PSII!<p>And you can't prove this wrong! Hahaha!

[Malakai]

...and thus Malakai's words are fulfilled as LS, Khyron, Peaguy, and Benoit (did I miss anybody?) plausibly prove once again that Noah is indeed Lutz.

[Dorrinal Blackmantle]

Oh yeah, QED and all that. No way this argument could possibly continue as you've erected an impenetrable fortress of proof and logic.<p>...I wonder if Starlight has read any of it since? She might have a headache now

[Lord Khyron]

If Noah is not Lutz, then who faced Lashiec in the air castle in PS 1?<p>The Xe-A-thouls and the Espers in PS IV claim it was Lutz. Rune even agrees it was Lutz.<p>"The First Generation Lutz fought someone in this castle."<p>PS IV script proves this.<p>Lutz is a title in PS IV. Now Dorrinal, If Noah is not Lutz..<p>Then someone named Lutz went to the air castle once again? After it was destroyed to fight Lashiec? He revived?<p>There is no way in hell another excursion was made to the air castle after PS 1 until PS IV.<p>You refuse to listen to that fact.<p>Rune even calls himself Rune, when his title is "Lutz" So Dorrinal, if Noah is not Lutz, then who went to the air castle with Alis?<p>Lutz WENT to the castle with Alis in PS 1. PS IV proves this. The Compendium proves this.<p>You agree two people went to the Air Castle Dorrinal? Do I have to bust out PS IV Script?<p>That's it. Time for PS IV script to put you in your place Dorrinal.<p> <blockquote><br>XAT2: Ha, ha, ha, ha! I'll take that, thank you very much!<br> CHAZ: What the heck do you think you're doing?!<br> XAT1: Ha, ha, ha, ha! We are beings who live in the Air Castle!<br> XAT2: Hey, you... the one dressed in white! If you're Lutz, you<br> remember, don't you?<br> XAT1: You know who will be waiting for you at the Air Castle!<br> (Xe-A-Thouls 1 and 3 suddenly grab the Eclipse Torch, and it<p>LDER: Oh, oh, of course...yes! No question about that!<br> RIKA: Rune, about the Air Castle? You said you know about it.<br> RUNE: Oh yes. It's in Lutz's memory, to be precise... It's<br> a castle that floated in the skies of the planet Parma a<br> long, long time ago!<br> RIKA: The planet Parma! In that case, it would have been<br> destroyed a thousand years ago!<br> WREN: The planet Parma exploded, and there's only an asteroid<br> belt left where the planet used to be.<br> RUNE: Could it be that miraculously, the Air Castle survived,<br> and even now it's in the midst of the asteroids?<br>RUNE: The first generation Lutz and his companions fought a man<br> in the Air Castle... That man's name was Lashiec!<br> CHAZ: Is that who they mean?<br> RUNE: Lashiec was defeated by the first generation Lutz! I<br> don't know what we'll find until we get there.<p>XAT2: Ha, ha, ha, ha! You've come! However...<p>XAT1: Ha, ha, ha, ha! We have no use for anyone but Lutz!<p>XAT2: And we have only one use for him. Ha, ha, ha, ha!<p>XAT1: We will mutilate and kill him with these very hands!<p>LASHIEC: You've finally come... Lutz!<p>RUNE: So it was Lashiec after all!<p>LASHIEC: Heh, heh...I've waited... I've waited for this moment!<p>RUNE: Lashiec! Why are you reincarnated...like that?<p>LASHIEC: For revenge! Lutz, you...and all who are helping you...will<br> suffer endless pain! I'll kill you all! I'll make you like<br> me, like... this! You too will become tortured souls who<br> can never leave my castle!<p>CHAZ: So that's why you lured us here?<p>LASHIEC: Heh, heh...Oh joy! You have responded to my invitation...<br> I've waited two thousand years to cut your throats!<p>CHAZ: Here he comes!<p>(The group fights and defeats Lashiec.)<p></blockquote> <p>From that right there. In PS 1, First Generation Lutz fought Lashiec.<p>The Air castle wasn't even realized to still exist until PS IV.<p>How the hell could someone else go there?<p>And if you read on, Lashiec has been waiting 2000 years for Lutz.<p>PS IV is 2000 years from PS 1, therefore the "1st generation LUTZ" fought Lashiec.<p>PS IV proves NOAH = Lutz.<p>The script proves it!<p>[size=small][Edit by Lord Khyron on [TIME]1114624267[/TIME]][/size]

[Dorrinal Blackmantle]

Quit being so obtuse LK! I'm sick of repeating myself: I agree that Noah is the First Generation Lutz. That does not prove that the person whom Rolf meets at Esper Mansion is Noah! i.e., there is no evidence that Lutz from PS2 is "first generation".