Phantasy Star Generation:1 English translation project

[TheSegaDude]

It's often seen in modern underground movements for multiple people to work independently towards the same goal; they are sometimes aware of each other but for various reasons do not seek to cooperate directly. My opinion is that this is the case here- Nero and Odin were independent rebels; Nero probably felt gathering evidence would spark a rebellion, while Odin wanted a mystical axe to assassinate Lassic.

@ carlsojos this is cool. I like your take on it. And your reply is very well written. Thanks for sharing you thoughts on this.

[Paul Jensen]

In the introduction this struck me as a possible contradiction:
He says Odin is a rebel 'too'. That would imply that Nero was not working alone. Or was Nero saying that on that particular mission when he learned of Lassic's plans and he was along at that time?
Or was Nero going to say something in addition before he passed?

I don't mean to sound like I'm bashing Kyence's work, but I don't think she translated that part accurately.

Short answer: Nero was working alone. Tylon is not a rebel. Nero and Tylon have never met.

Here's Nero's entire monologue (translation is mine):

Nero
"Alisa ...
Listen to me ... *groan* ...
La Shiek's ... *groan* ...
gone and brought a catastrophic force to our solar system.
He's put us all on a path to total annihilation ...
I tried to figure out what he's gonna do,
but I was working alone, so I couldn't find much out.
Alisa, look for a man named Tylon ...
I've heard stories about him.
They say he's tough enough to hold his own against La Shiek.
If you guys worked together, maybe ...
maybe you could destroy La Shiek and make this a peaceful system again!"

*LIGHT SPOILERS*

According to Nero's dialog, he was acting as an independent spy without any outside help. Finally, there's no indication in the original text that Tylon is a rebel -- only that he could fight against La Shiek if he wanted to. Tylon is basically a bounty hunter. The whole reason he got turned to stone is that he was trying to win the Laconian Axe from Medusa. It's only after Alisa and Myau rescue him that he agrees to help her track down and kill La Shiec.

HTH

[xrick]

Kyence explained about that part...
If I remember right, she felt that the way the text is in the translation seemed better and more encouraging for the players.
Honestly, even I felt a bit aback when I saw that, I prefer the literal translation way better, but that's just me...

[Paul Jensen]

Kyence explained about that part...
If I remember right, she felt that the way the text is in the translation seemed better and more encouraging for the players.
Honestly, even I felt a bit aback when I saw that, I prefer the literal translation way better, but that's just me...

I guess I can see that, but I think calling him a rebel betrays Tylon's character a bit. He is a thrill seeker (and in that way a rebel, I guess), but he's not a literal, anti-government rebel -- at least not to begin with, anyway.

[xrick]

Kyence explained about that part...
If I remember right, she felt that the way the text is in the translation seemed better and more encouraging for the players.
Honestly, even I felt a bit aback when I saw that, I prefer the literal translation way better, but that's just me...

I guess I can see that, but I think calling him a rebel betrays Tylon's character a bit. He is a thrill seeker (and in that way a rebel, I guess), but he's not a literal, anti-government rebel -- at least not to begin with, anyway.

Likewise here, but now anyone can edit the script to have it more faithful to the original, if I'm not mistaken. And I sure hope someone will do so...

[Paul Jensen]

Likewise here, but now anyone can edit the script to have it more literal to the original, if I'm not mistaken. And I sure hope someone will do so...

I think maybe the word you're lookg for isn't literal, but faithful. Literal translations usually turn out pretty crappy, because they focus on capturing grammar and vocabulary instead of aiming for capturing the tone of the original text while making it sound natural in the target language.

[xrick]

Likewise here, but now anyone can edit the script to have it more literal to the original, if I'm not mistaken. And I sure hope someone will do so...

I think maybe the word you're lookg for isn't literal, but faithful. Literal translations usually turn out pretty crappy, because they focus on capturing grammar and vocabulary instead of aiming for capturing the tone of the original text while making it sound natural in the target language.

Edited, thanks for the tip.

[darkwraith007]

Some thoughts

-Space limitations and lack of programming/hacking ability.

Kyence is more of a translator than a programmer/hacker and the font in the PSG1 translation reflects this. It does remain 'faithful' to the original to have truncated names/abilities, but the translation would benefit from one or more volunteers who have the hacking ability to be able to insert a proper variable-width font and expand the game (since it barely takes up a quarter of the space on a typical CD-R) to benefit from more space for a more 'faithful' translation.

Given the constraints and the resources at hand, Kyence has done a fantastic job. While you all can debate and argue about a faithful or proper translation, how about helping out or recruiting some people with programming ability to help out?
Better yet, if you feel you can do better with a 'retranslation' project , grab a team and hop to it! The compression/decompression cracking has been done for ya, nothing else stopping ya but time.

[xrick]

Hey, calm down please, we were just commenting about something others have spoken about earlier, even with herself.
She also mentioned that anyone with the skills and/or resources to, is free to edit the script for a new version of her work, so it's ok.

And yes, she made a miracle many wished for but couldn't, come true. And it paved way for PSG:2's translation, which is even better news.

[TheSegaDude]

Kyence has done a fantastic job.

I couldn't agree more. I am so amazed and grateful for Kyence! This translation is awesome. I can't thank Kyence enough.

And I have enjoyed reading everyone's comments on the dialog. All of it gives me a deeper understanding of a game I love as well as better appreciation for the work that goes into a translation like this.

[TheSegaDude]

In the introduction this struck me as a possible contradiction:
He says Odin is a rebel 'too'. That would imply that Nero was not working alone. Or was Nero saying that on that particular mission when he learned of Lassic's plans and he was along at that time?
Or was Nero going to say something in addition before he passed?

I don't mean to sound like I'm bashing Kyence's work, but I don't think she translated that part accurately.

Short answer: Nero was working alone. Tylon is not a rebel. Nero and Tylon have never met.

Here's Nero's entire monologue (translation is mine):

Nero
"Alisa ...
Listen to me ... *groan* ...
La Shiek's ... *groan* ...
gone and brought a catastrophic force to our solar system.
He's put us all on a path to total annihilation ...
I tried to figure out what he's gonna do,
but I was working alone, so I couldn't find much out.
Alisa, look for a man named Tylon ...
I've heard stories about him.
They say he's tough enough to hold his own against La Shiek.
If you guys worked together, maybe ...
maybe you could destroy La Shiek and make this a peaceful system again!"

*LIGHT SPOILERS*

According to Nero's dialog, he was acting as an independent spy without any outside help. Finally, there's no indication in the original text that Tylon is a rebel -- only that he could fight against La Shiek if he wanted to. Tylon is basically a bounty hunter. The whole reason he got turned to stone is that he was trying to win the Laconian Axe from Medusa. It's only after Alisa and Myau rescue him that he agrees to help her track down and kill La Shiec.

HTH

Hey Paul,
Thanks for taking the time show us your translation. I really did enjoy seeing your version of Nero's comments. It's very cool. I also love seeing so much interest in this game! If we're all spending this much time discussing such fine details I know we're all really into this kick-ass remake

The first time I read 'rebel' in the remake I instantly wanted a lot of back story. There's a rebellion on Palma?! That doesn't just happen over night.

[Paul Jensen]

@darkwraith007: I agree with you. I think Kyence did a fantastic job on the translation given the resources she had.

Believe it or not, I'm actually trying to be supportive of the project. I'm just concerned about the quality of the translation after looking at the translated text and also reading some of Kyence's comments. She mentioned that she used Google Translate to perform a lot of the translation work and also that she doesn't really know a lot of Japanese. Those are red flags for me. IMO J-E machine translation is pretty much only good for laughs at this point. Also, some of Kyence's translations sound like they were done by somebody without a lot of experience in translating Japanese. Neither of these things are her fault, but I think both factors have prevented the translation from being as good as it could be.

I'd love to go through the script myself someday and make my own localization. That's possible now thanks to Kyence and the others who collaborated on this project, and for that I'm truly grateful.

[Tryphon]

I made a tool for (relatively) easily editing PSG dialogs. It should work with PSG1.

As already said, Kyence did not have this tool and she modified dialogs so as they still have the same size than japanese.

Feel free to use it and make your own translation. I provide support, if you find bugs

[Kyence]

@darkwraith007: I agree with you. I think Kyence did a fantastic job on the translation given the resources she had.

Believe it or not, I'm actually trying to be supportive of the project. I'm just concerned about the quality of the translation after looking at the translated text and also reading some of Kyence's comments. She mentioned that she used Google Translate to perform a lot of the translation work and also that she doesn't really know a lot of Japanese. Those are red flags for me. IMO J-E machine translation is pretty much only good for laughs at this point. Also, some of Kyence's translations sound like they were done by somebody without a lot of experience in translating Japanese. Neither of these things are her fault, but I think both factors have prevented the translation from being as good as it could be.

If people don't like it, I can't change that, but like you've pointed out that these people are free to edit the text to their liking. Most of the Japanese I know is syntax and some grammar; I'm pretty good with hiragana and katakana, but kanji is my definite weak spot. Quite frankly, Google Translate does stink, but it helped with kanji I didn't have a clue over. I used a couple of websites for the kanji, and my old notes from JPN 101 back in college. Using all of these resources I patched things together. I don't think I did a horrible job, but do I think someone could do a better translation? Definitely! Especially with Tryphon's new tool, the string limitation is completely removed.

I'd love to go through the script myself someday and make my own localization. That's possible now thanks to Kyence and the others who collaborated on this project, and for that I'm truly grateful.

This is my general pet peeve with the Internet. It's a catch-22: people that are really fluent in Japanese and can translate into English, etc., have played the game and don't see a need to translate it. I won't lie, it took countless hours of everyone's time to figure out how to get things where they were. 99% of people aren't insane enough, interested enough, and/ or have the time to do this (this is the biggest obstacle). We figured if could get something out of PS1, the fact that it was done would set a precedent and people would come out and really work together on a better translation or even G2.

I have thought about taking a bow from G2 translating if someone steps up. Currently, I translated the items, weapons, and armor, in the SLPM file; I can do the same with monster names, techniques (I want to use PSO spellings), and change the pointer addresses to allow for more space.

Paul, could you translate G2 for us? You have much better translating skills, and Tryphon has done an incredible job of creating a tool that extracts the event text for you. All you have to do is insert your translated text and you are done! It would create the best translation.

[Tryphon]

If I can put my grain of salt, I think there's enough work for 2 translators Or 3