Phantasy Star Cave Message Board

Hey there. I know this is not a Final Fantasy forum, but this thing kind of affects us in an indirect manner. You must know of the Japanese games industry shrinking somewhat in front of the growth of the western (not just the US) industry.

It's the attitude of Yoshinori Kitase (producer of FF13) and many others in the Japanese industry that angers me.

Sadly, the Japanese industry has been churning over and over well established formulas, with little to no intention of changing. Of course, there are good examples of the opposite, but this short interview kind of irked me.

Please take a look and tell me what you think.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/ar ... eneral-RSS

Ah, oh man, I just can't understand how these second-in-command types can act all high and mighty when it was their predecessors that actually crafted the brand.

Man alive. "Western point of view" my ass. Where are all the FF7 fantards spirit marrying Sephiroth again? Oh, right, the west!

Lately Square has been having trouble with this sort of PR thing. Them and Sony. It's gotta be embarassing to SOMEONE over there, right?

That said Square is still fully capable of putting out good games, so I can't quite entirely give up on them.

Final Fantasy... 13.

doesnt sound too final to me.

It's annoying that Square Enix keeps this up.

I mean, it's childish, if you think about it.

"It's not our fault you can't like a good game. It's YOUR fault!"

Well, I can only tell Mister Kitase to take his paradigm shift and shove it up his ass. That is a disrespect to gamers in general (not just western, a good deal of the heat comes from Japanese players) and a kind of attitude that I'm not going to put up with.

Final Fantasy 13 took FIVE YEARS TO PRODUCE. That's half a friggin' decade down the goddamn drain.

I'm ending my support for the Final Fantasy name NOW.

You can't let one person represent an entire company... That would kind of be like racism in a way, if one person of a race robbed you, and you said that entire race is bad...

I agree the disrespect is apparent, and I'll slap him upside his head if he ever comes by... But I'm not going to turn down the Final Fantasy name because this guy is retarded...

The world is full of idiots, and everyone is extremely opinionated... I think Final Fantasy 13 will be awesome... I really really really enjoyed 12... I don't care much for the side games released since then, but I never really did, even when Square was in their prime... (Final Fantasy:Mystic Quest... WTH!?)

Either way, I agree... The guy's a ... you know... But don't let that turn you off of an awesome franchise... Don't let one man ruin an awesome game you may enjoy for a long period of time.

Aaaaaactually...

I have been playing that sucker this weekend after a friend of mine imported it... and hated it.

It has awesome graphics (with some clipping), great music... But I didn't like the story and the gameplay is... tremendously outdated. It's got loads of eyecandy, but I don't feel it adds to the experience...

It feels as if I was playing Final Fantasy 4 in terms of linearity.

And I think I am just about to give up on the game... After nearly 32 hours...

No other Final Fantasy has made me feel like this. And I hated 12 with a passion until I played it in a summer...

Regarding Kitase, I disagree. Square Enix is backing him up, so it shows a good deal of arrogance on the part of the executives and a good part of the staff. That is enough to make me NOT want to support the franchise any longer... And believe me, I have played EVERY SINGLE Final Fantasy. Even the weird spinoffs that I managed to get my hands on.

The attitude, the lack of innovation and the gall to blame their failure on others, has been the last straw for me.

Wanna know what game I just started playing today (more like yesterday) and I'm having a complete blast with it? Ar Tonelico 2. It's just as typical a story as there can be, but the execution is different enough to make me enjoy the story and the gameplay...

The humor in the localization is also a great relief from the usual RPGs that take themselves too seriously.

That said, it is only my opinion. You may love the game for all I know, and if you do, that's awesome. One more game for you to enjoy.

The reason I started to play FF12 was because despite what I read and heard from both internet sources and my friend, I felt I needed to experience it for myself before I passed a final judgement. I took an open minded approach at the game and played it, since I have been wrong before in my assesments several times before.

But this game didn't do it for me. It didn't change my mind and actually made me hate it.

Games that have made me swallow my words have been:

Ar Tonelico 1 (PS2) (outdated for the time of its release, the story, humor and concepts made it an instant favorite for me)

Omega Boost (PS1) (ugly as frickin' hell, it is actually fun)

Phantasy Star Online (DC) (I hated it at the beginning because of its disconnection to the original Phantasy Star series and weird gameplay. Now I love it)

Disaster Report (PS2) (Again, outdated graphics, sounds, everything... But its premise of escaping from a disaster using your intelligence and determination to survive make this an awesome story.)

Valkyria Chronicles (PS3) (A hybrid between an RPG, a 3rd person shooter and a strategy game? What were the guys at Sega smoking!? Yet, the execution of the story dragged me and never let me go...)

I always mentally roll my eyes whenever someone says that Final Fantasy is a great series. It's got some great games, but most of it is seriously overrated. These days it's pretty much designed to be as mainstream and pretty as possible, without regard for what makes an RPG actually good.

What's wrong with Final Fantasy USA Mystic Quest/Final Fantasy Mystic Quest/Mystic Quest Adventure? It's a simple game, but fun to play regardless.

Yeah, it's amazing how some really odd games can turn out to be so great... Some of my favorite games of all time are looked at as complete jokes in the gaming world.

I dunno, even Phantasy Star has been heavily overlooked, but that's probably because most of the people I know outside of my dad, and my girlfriend, only play games like Fight Night, and Madden, and maybe that's why a lot of my old classic favorites have been overlooked by people I know.

However, Legend of Mana, Azure Dreams, and the Castlevania on PSX are 3 of my favorite games of all time... The only game in that list which I ever find good said about, is the Castlevania one, even though almost everybody I know of refuse to even try it, INCLUDING my girlfriend, and father. I don't think they know just how RPG that game is...

At any rate, I haven't heard of the games you listed, and I am always wanting to try out some new games... Maybe I'll give a couple a shot next weekend and see what's good with them.

As far as FF13, I haven't played it yet, but I did seriously enjoy Final Fantasy 12, so maybe "I" will like 13... I can only hope.

BenoitRen wrote:I always mentally roll my eyes whenever someone says that Final Fantasy is a great series. It's got some great games, but most of it is seriously overrated. These days it's pretty much designed to be as mainstream and pretty as possible, without regard for what makes an RPG actually good.

What's wrong with Final Fantasy USA Mystic Quest/Final Fantasy Mystic Quest/Mystic Quest Adventure? It's a simple game, but fun to play regardless.

Great series... No... I'd say it's a good series if you take averages in mind. Some of my favorite RPGs are Final Fantasies, with numbers 6, 4, 5 and 9 as the most interesting stories in the series and 7 as probably the most interesting in gameplay mechanics. The materia system, due to the enormous quantity of possible combinations easily warrants more than 100 hours if you're a completionist. 7 was more of a WIDE game, as opposed to LONG.

I like putting FF12 in its own category, as it has a totally distinct gameplay system, and interesting characters, once the story finally takes off for good. I ended up liking it a lot, but I can't quite classify it as a normal Final Fantasy. However, the rest aren't that good. Even FF10, which had some topics I enjoyed and gripped me, wasn't as rewarding for me as the others.

Oh... The one spinoff that deserves a lot of credit is actually Crisis Core. That one I enjoyed, and the main character, Zack, is what I can gladly define as a great Hero. Not because he has the "main character" mantle, but because of his maturation.

I really recommend this one game to ANYONE looking for a good game for the PSP.

Which takes me back to 13... I'm jumping of the train... NOW...

I hope that for FF15, they take into account the mistake and so far disaster of the current one and correct it... Why am I not counting 14? Because 14 is FF11-2...

And answering your question about Mystic Quest...

Dunno... Actually, that was my very first RPG on the SNES. I still like it.

I liked the lumberjack girl... But I can't remember her name, dammit!!

Final Fantasy Mystic Quest was the third final fantasy game I played, (first one's being 1 and 4, or 2US I "should" say), but it was like the gizillionth rpg I had played... It was actually made for children, and people who don't understand/know RPGs... The game was fun, but not challenging... I need a challenge, but yeah... I can easily see how it can be enjoyable, I just felt it should of had a different name.

MQ still put forth some good ideas for the series that were never taken hold of for some reason. Stuff like tool-based puzzles (Lufia and Wild Arms certainly didn't let that go), no random encounters (We had to wait until FF12 for that, right?), and pseudo-thrash metal.

I am excited for pseudo-thrash metal.

Well, Final Fantasy Tactics, the legends/adventures were already out... But as far as brand name series, 1 - 12, yeah, we had to wait until 12 for it... Although I dunno about the online one either... Anyhow, yes! MQ did have some nice elements to it, and I am a strong believer in the "Build Up Spots" in MMQ... Those should be in every game.

BenoitRen wrote:I always mentally roll my eyes whenever someone says that Final Fantasy is a great series. It's got some great games, but most of it is seriously overrated. These days it's pretty much designed to be as mainstream and pretty as possible, without regard for what makes an RPG actually good.

What's wrong with Final Fantasy USA Mystic Quest/Final Fantasy Mystic Quest/Mystic Quest Adventure? It's a simple game, but fun to play regardless.

I completely agree with you there Benoit. Go to any RPGMaker game-making site and you'll see how much friggin support those awful fan games get. But I'm doing my bit for the PS series by hopefully dragging in some more fans who have never even heard of Phantasy Star, let alone played it, by releasing my game to the masses.

It looks good, so far. There is still hope.

I actually heard of a FFXIV as well. It's an online game, I think. I saw a trailer.

Light help us.

Friggin' light is on vacations... it won't help...

God forbid their popular MMO receive a sequel after a mere 7 years!

But, seriously. Final Fantasy certainly has some clunkers, but at least until the PS3 era it was always trying at least one or two things differently, and the majority of them are still a ton of fun.

FF1 streamlined the usual tedium of NES jRPGs (why yes I love having to open two menus to find a 'use stairs button', thanks DQ!)

FF2 is so messed up that even after three remakes it still hardly makes sense (but is fun as hell to break over your knee once you do learn how everything grows/works)

FF3...well I guess it gave us on the fly job changing? Which I think DQ3 did anyway? Eh.

Ironically, though FF4 is my favorite, retrospect kinda makes me realize that it's fairly bland. All it introduced was ATB to the series. Well, that and characters who actually have conversations beyond one or two sentences, but that's hardly a upgrade unique to FF.

FF5 was another Job class game, only done to perfection since you could mix and match skills that you've acquired to make ultimate powerhouses. That, too, is a fun game to break.

FF6 is absolutely no fun to play but an absolute blast to discuss, infer about, read into the characters of, and see artwork of. I'm still not entirely sure why this is.

FF7. Say what you will about it being overrated or not, but it did introduce another succesful (albeit stuffed with barely-there penalties) skill customization system and a surprisingly interesting tale about a man so broken that he pretends to be someone else and eventually believes it to be true.

FF8 was fun to break, but, the plot was total shit and even my favorite part (junction/refining) is tedious as hell to normal people.

FF9 completely nailed the character and world portions. Definitely the best cast and the best main character in pretty much any series, let alone FF. The gameplay itself is certainly bland, but, it's a turn based RPG. Who cares?

FFX has CTB, which was (kinda similar to Grandia's battles but) the best system this series ever had, which makes sense since the Front Mission guys made this one. Sure, everyone hates Tidus and the voice acting, whatever. It was a quality product.

FFX-2 was not. I don't even care that the battle system was apparently fun. I'd rather not play a game that actively insults me and thinks that I want it to. Lazy, pandering trash that merely proved to Square that it doesn't have to put effort into anything and it'll still go platinum. Thus leading to shithouses like Dirge of Cerberus.

11 and 14 I can't say much about.

We're now nearing the PS3 age! And as such, FF12 is one of the biggest steaming piles of failed potential on the market. We're talking Phantasy Star 3 level. An interesting world! A theoretically "political" plot! A new battle system that's pretty cool for the first three hours!

Then the entire development team got sick of Square's shit and quit, leaving the backup guys to assemble a game when they clearly had no idea how to do so. Absolutely no character in anyone except Balthier? Check! Hilariously boring and obvious "political thriller" plot? Check! A game composed of 60% "hey, the next cutscene is only three overworld areas and a dungeon away!" aimlessness? Check! A battle system where they only thing they could think of was to just give enemies exponentially higher amounts of HP when you find a new area and thus make every fight a boring, drawn out slog? Check!

And that's it so far. Haven't played 13 yet, but I've heard a lot of good/bad about it, so I'm not even close to writing it off just yet.


So, anyway, maybe it's just me, but, if the vast majority of the games in a series are good and fun to play, how is it somehow less deserving of respect because a few of them sucked? Am I supposed to think PS is overrated because PS3 was in the series?